Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by TWOTIMESRALPHI, Dec 18, 2005.
Flip: "The rim blocked Hooper and he broke his leg. But he comes to work on crutches. Do you understand me, Darko"? Darko: "Yes, rim messes with me too sometimes" Flip: "No, I mean the horse still shows up to work despite the obstacles" Darko: "I no want to ride horsie. I still want to ride in firetruck"
we all saw darko doing well in the preseason. flip made some changes and then darko started a downhill slide. just like some players are better suited to come off the bench than start and vice versa. just like some players are better at 2 guard than at point guard. when a coach makes a change and it negatively affects a players game it's up to the coach and the player to come to some kind of midpoint if the player is needed for team success. darko is not needed for this team to be successful that's why flip isn't willing to bend and give darko minutes in the first half of games. yes. his bad may outweigh his good i will give you that. but his bad mostly occurs during certain situations if i was his coach i wouldn't put him in those situations i would put him in the situations when he does good. that's why chauncey shoots technical free throws and not ben. darko is ultimately responsible for his play but his coach is also responsible for putting him in a position to succeed. i don't think you can solve a problem without looking at why it is happening. some people like to only point out problems others like to look for a solution. right now for flip darko is a solution he can worry about later on in the season or maybe next year after one of the bigs is traded or retires.
Amuse me.What don't you like about Darko?Do you think that most legit NBA talents would perform like Darko has if put in the same situation?Do you still believe that Darko is the future of the franchise and a potential All-Star?Would you build a team around Darko?Do you think Darko will ever live up to the picks that surround him? Even in the perfect situation?Can you sight an example of a past star that looked really unimpressive and uninspired at the beginning of his career just to turn it around and become an allstar? If you can think of someone would you at least be willing to admit that this is more of an exception than the norm?Do you think a player that thinks he is too good to play hard during "garbage minutes" is the type of player the Pistons should have on their roster?If Darko were not the 2nd pick of the draft and you were evaluating his performance the past couple of years would you still be this enamoured by him?How can two high profile coaches still have it wrong about this guy? Are you more qualified to judge his effort than Larry Brown and Flip Saunders?Why aren't his teammates singing his praises anymore? Been a while since we've heard that, right. If you are still Darko crazy after all that.... Darko really needs to consider hiring you as his agent. ;)
A little perspective Please recall that Joe D said he did not draft Darko for immediate help or for the following year or the year after that. He drafted him to be the next wave after Ben and Sheed have their skills decline. He was drafted at 17 years old. He came from an environment of death and destruction that would traumatise a grizzled war vet. His life experience is totatally different than any of ours. Melo, Bosh, Wade all came from relatively normal childhoods. They also probably played 10 times more basketball than Darko before they were drafted. Cut him a little slack on his immature reaction to not getting the playing time he felt he earned in the pre-season. He needs more teaching than he is getting from Flip. He needs Lambeer to take him under his wing. Those of you expecting Darko to be performing a the Wade level now are unrealistic and shortsighted. When the time comes for Ben to fade, Darko will be ready and will help keep the Pistons on top.
Sorry, the quotes are messed up. Congomans quotes are in black type. My responses are in green: Please recall that Joe D said he did not draft Darko for immediate help or for the following year or the year after that. He drafted him to be the next wave after Ben and Sheed have their skills decline. Did Joe really say he expected no help from Darko for at least 3 years. Maybe he did? I only remember him saying that he didn't expect immediate help. But where is the growth over 3 years. I am aware of none on the court or off the court. He was drafted at 17 years old. He came from an environment of death and destruction that would traumatise a grizzled war vet. His life experience is totatally different than any of ours. Melo, Bosh, Wade all came from relatively normal childhoods. They also probably played 10 times more basketball than Darko before they were drafted. Cut him a little slack on his immature reaction to not getting the playing time he felt he earned in the pre-season. Are you saying Darko looks shell shocked on the basketball court because he is traumatized from the war? He needs more teaching than he is getting from Flip. He needs Lambeer to take him under his wing. He needs to put forth effort and stop whining. How do you know that Flip is not teaching him. Laimbeer is a broadcaster ...not a coach for the Pistons. He had the benefit of two very knowledgable and experienced coaches. If he needs a nursemaid to help him play , I'm pretty sure Mr. Davidson will supply one to avoid wasting the 4 million he is already paying this kid to complain about his treatment. Those of you expecting Darko to be performing a the Wade level now are unrealistic and shortsighted. When the time comes for Ben to fade, Darko will be ready and will help keep the Pistons on top. I don't think that asking for a full effort from Darko at all times is unrealistic or shortsighted.
honestly most of the things i don't like about darko i feel are playing time related. i think he gets stripped too often. i think he doesn't realize he's bigger and stronger than everyone else. i think he defers to older players too much. i think this is a confidence thing. yes. i believe that most legit nba talents with no experience and a language barrier would perform the way darko has. i think young american players would have demanded a trade and not signed on to another contract. i think darko has done well considering the situation he's in. yes. darko is a part of the future of the franchise and will be a future all star. joe doesn't build around one player so i can only say darko is a piece. he's 7' with an athleticism that compares to players much smaller than him. yes. i would build a team around darko so would most nba bottom dwellers right now. a dominant big man is usually the key to being a nba championship contender. he's a defensive minded, free throw shooting, outside range, good passer, willing passer, athletic 7 footer. i assume you mean live up to the other picks by stats because darko has already surpassed them when it comes to winning. no darko will not live up to the other top 5 picks when it comes to stats. pistons don't get good stats. in a perfect situation darko would thrive to the point of domination. yes this is the exception rather than the norm. a lottery pick coming to a nba championship roster is also an exception rather than the norm. so with more minutes i would assume they would get more exposure and be more inspired. i won't answer the unimpressive thing because i think darko has been impressive. leading the nba in blocks from the bench in the preseason is impressive to me. i was also impressed in the atlanta game last year. so was woody that's why he made the call to joe d and see if darko was available. yes. i think a player that is too good for garbage time should be a piston. put any of the starters in during garbage time and you would see players going half speed and dogging it. yes. i would still be a darko fan. i have enough vision to understand what type of player darko could become if he was getting the minutes. he's shown quicks, shot blocking skill, shooting range, passing ability, toughness, strength and he's 20 years old and 7 feet tall. those 2 coaches are more interested in winning. it's the coaches job to win first develop second. when you have 3 former all stars ahead of the guy it's hard to sacrifice thier minutes because the young guy doesn't like garbage time minutes. i think both of those coaches in a situation when they didn't have 4 former all stars to choose from instead of darko would be running him into the ground with minutes. i think joe dumars is more qualified than flip and larry. he isn't playing so there is no need to sing his praises. i bet if asked a direct question the pistons player would comment on darko in a positive light. if you count sheed calling him a serbian gangsta that is a teammate speaking on him. i'm a piston fan and a darko fan. i want him to do well. i am convinced about the kid. i'm going to defend him to the end. i've learned about writing people off prematurely.
i don't think joe expected lb to just simply change the guys game. i don't think joe counted on lb destroying his confidence. look at darko's body and you will see physical growth. i think darko's game has regressed under lb. he's just not getting back to where he was when he came in as a rookie. what kind of growth are you looking for?? he went from not touching the court to leading the nba in blocks in the preseason. that doesn't count as growth?? i don't think it's growth because i think he could do this years ago he just hasn't been given the oppurtunity. you don't suddenly become a dominant shot blocker. no. he's saying there is a reason behind darko not understanding his situation and being frustrated. he's saying they are much more experienced than darko. i think definitely melo wouldn't have handled sitting on the bench for 3 years when you know you can play. flip and lb taught darko. but look at what other teams do when the bring in a big man. they bring in a big man to tutor and work with thier young big man. that's why ewing is coaching. it is not unheard of. lb was not a benefit to darko. he broke his confidence and swagger because lb is old school and thought that's the way it should be done. young guys should pay thier dues. asking for a full effort without looking at why he has a problem with garbage time is unrealistic. garbage time was used to humiliate and punish him for 2 straight years. why do people find it weird that darko doesn't like it. garbage time was more abuse to him than an oppurtunity. full effort without reward is also an unrealistic expectation.
Jay I think we should let slippy decide this one. What do you think slippy?
i would agree with you if i actually see darko play good. why do you think everyone else does not talk so highly of darko. don't take this the wrong way, everyone wants him to do good, but it looks like he won't live up to his expectations. he can't get babied around and given free pt. look at all our players they fought harder than almost any basketball player to get where they are, and our players who fight for there minutes won't get any minutes taken away by a guy who thinks he can get what he wants, he'll have to work his way from the bottom just like the rest. bball jay if darko was good why wouldn't we play him?
I want to ride the fire truck. Darko sux. Maybe one day that rim won't get in his way and he'll be free to rise up to his potential. Maybe.
Et Tu Slippy? lmaoooooooooooo. Well, I guess that about says it all. Stick a fork in the Darko club. It's done.
just the way to explain it.
:deadhorse Hey, man, you gotta give this bromide a rest. Darko has not been rim blocked for quite a while. And, while it grieves me to say anything negative about the great Ben Wallace (I am forced to do so to illustrate a point), I am rather certain that a review of the tapes would reveal that Ben has been rim blocked more times in one game than Darko has been all this season. Darko has to get some things straight, but he will be unable to do so as a Piston. He has to go somewhere where he can play. He has the talent and I believe the latent will to be a first tier player, but he has not had enough game time in Europe or here to learn the game of basketball. He simply has to play--it doesn't matter where, here, Europe, NBDL, anwhere. If he doesn't get consistent playing time soon, his basketball career may be an impossibility And a parting tip of the hat to basketball jay for his indefatigable loyalty, an admirable trait.
The only person that can rescue Darko is Darko. The only person that can rescue Darko is Darko. It's not Flip's fault. He was playing him in the second quarter giving Darko a legitimate chance. Darko did not take advantage of it. Unfortunately he has some serious mental issues he has to overcome. Yes, he needs alot of playing time to develop. But effort is not something that requires time. Anybody living can choose to leave it all out on the floor. Darko unfortunately hasn't chosen to do that. Darko is now in the woodshed and he better have an attitude adjustment real quick or he is gone. It's not too late but the coffin is closing as a Piston. He better show some heart real quick or Joe is going to cut his losses and get whatever he can. It's time for Darko to look into the mirror and blame Darko. It's not LB's fault and it's not Flip's fault. There is only one person to blame and that is Darko. It would be a serious mistake for Flip to honor Darko with playing time when he obviously hasn't shown he wants it bad enough. It's time for Darko to prove he is a man NOW.
best darko quote yet
I've sworn off Darko for the Holidays... it's bad for the health
"You know what, when I got drafted, I was so excited. I was like 'Damn, I made it.' I thought it was going to be all good. I was just so excited to play, but I don't think they ever really gave me a fair shot to learn. I never got to sit back, play, and learn from my mistakes. I never got to learn the game and get better. That's what all the other guys got. All the other guys who are high picks, the teams live with their mistakes early, they live with them, but I never got that" --Chauncey Billups http://sports.ign.com/articles/676/676682p1.html
Separate names with a comma.