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The Lakers

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by 1989, Dec 8, 2005.

  1. 1989

    1989 First Round Draft Pick

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    Do any of you have an opinion on the Lakers this year?

    The Lakers are the team I love to hate (which means of course that I love them in a strange way). I like to see them do well, because there's no one I'd rather the Pistons have to beat in the Finals. We've played them three times; in our remaining four trips to the Finals we played four different teams.

    Anyway, I was just reading this article on Page2, wherein the author wrote the following:

    Odom does seem to be getting a lot of flack these days. He's a really talented player, and he genuinely appears to want to do well, but on the other hand, he's pretty inconsistent, and has often lacked assertiveness since returning to L.A. He also doesn't seem to fit with Kobe at all. Although they've been playing together for over a year, they still seem like strangers on the court; the chemistry just isn't there.

    Can Kobe and Lamar integrate their respective games? Or are the Lakers, currently constituted, a lost cause?
     
  2. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    Who can play with Kobe? I had Smush on my fantasy team and after two monster games he started to suck. How could a guy playing 30+ minutes go for 2 pts, 1 reb and 3 TO's? He was getting 7 shots a game. Being the basketball goober that I am, I never looked over to Kobes 30 shots a game. The guy is a ball hog.

    Kobe shoots less...look what smush is contributing now. I figure its the same with Odom only Odom probably needs more from kobe than a kick out from a double team to be effective.
     
  3. 1989

    1989 First Round Draft Pick

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    You may be right.

    The thing I don't understand about Kobe is how much he seems to have regressed over the last 3 or 4 years.

    Think about the 2001 playoffs. Back then Jackson had Kobe playing at the top of the triangle -- like Pippen -- where he would initiate the offense. Nowadays he plays more on the wing -- like Jordan -- and he's looking to attack pretty much all the time.

    Anyway, I remember Jackson (in 2001) saying something about how he was asking Kobe to do things as a playmaker that he never asked of Jordan, and that he was exceeding all his expectations. In addition to being an initiator, he was the Lakers' fourth quarter closer; you might say that he played the Pippen role for 3 quarters and then the Jordan role to close out the game.

    I mention all this because he was, at the tender age of 21, as frightening a player as anyone I've seen. I remember looking forward to the Spurs-Lakers conference finals that year, and being utterly shocked at how Kobe just took control of that series, simply destroying the Spurs. Four games; sweep; huge margins of victory; he scored 48(!) against the twin towers and one of the best defenses in the league; just call him the annihilator....

    It was more than just that series though. From 1999-2002 he was a really efficient player, always shooting just under 47 % from the floor. In 2003, he dropped a bit to 45%, which is still respectable, but it's been all downhill from there.

    This year he's shooting something like 42%, which isn't very good for anyone, and for him is awful. Okay, he's not getting the same looks that he used to when Shaq was around, but he just seems to miss a hell of a lot more these days.

    Remember the 2003 season, when Shaq was out and Kobe just took it to another plane? He averaged just under 45 for five games, had nine straight games with at least 35, I'm pretty sure it was somewhere in that run that he set the record for threes in a game (12), including nine in a row; against the Nuggets he scored 51 points in 31 minutes, before PJ had him sit down (out of mercy?). The late Ralph Wiley wrote a memorable column at that time wherein he stated that Kobe was the greatest scoring force the league had ever seen. It seems kind of amazing now, but I remember reading the column at the time and -- AI, MJ, Jerry, Elgin, and (especially) Wilt notwithstanding -- Wiley's case seemed not unreasonable.

    Kobe seemed to start this season that way, but he's been tossing bricks for a few weeks now. To me, he hasn't seemed completely on his game since before he was charged with rape, which was over 2-1/2 years ago! I'm not a huge fan of his or anything, but I do think it would be a shame if he never fulfills his potential.
     
  4. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    I used to be a Kobe fan (sort of) but now everytime I see him all I think is #$%$#^ ass. Kind of like Russell Crowe. Tremendous talent. Holds his audience in awe so much of the time. Bad personality really. The only difference is Russell doesn't have 5 athletes trying to shut him down. :P
     
  5. 1989

    1989 First Round Draft Pick

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    Old news now, and I'm sure you all know about it already, but the other night Kobe absolutely exploded for 62 points in 33 minutes against the Mavs. It's not like Dallas didn't see it coming either; Kobe scored 43 against the Mavs the week before. Avery Johnson threw everything he had at him and it simply didn't matter.

    After three quarters it was Kobe 62 Mavs 61 and the Lakers were up by 34. A ridiculous performance.
     
  6. lemonpen

    lemonpen First Round Draft Pick

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    Kobe is: Very talented. Very selfish. Displays no restraint. His talent is his millstone. There isn't a shot he can't make, just not every night.

    IMO Odoms failure to mesh is the result of Kobes inability to facilitate an on court relationship. They should feed each other like Arenas and Jamison.

    Smush unfortunately plays D no better than he did as a Piston. Walton has not seemed to develop a game despite significant playing time. Never quite figured what others see / saw in George. Mihm is, .... well Mihm, wysiwyg.
     
  7. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I listened to a radio show last week, and they made the point that Kobe is just now hitting his prime.

    I see leadership in him. I still hate him for the rape fiasco, but he seems to have cleaned up his act (that we see) and adopted some humility.

    When I see Kobe, I see a young Jordan. Carrying the scoring load because quite frankly, Smush, Lamar, Mihm and whoever else plays for Showtime (see my point?) suck. Odom is neither a PF or a SF. He plays well when the pressure is off.

    Kobe is under total scrutiny every time he hits the court. Hate the man, not the player.
     
  8. Abe Froemen

    Abe Froemen First Round Draft Pick

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    Kobe

    Imo I don’t think Kobe raped that chick. In this day and age where everybody has a lawyer on speed dial because they want to get a quick buck rather than earn it. I think the minute that chick saw Kobe she saw dollar signs. Hell she was probably pissed she didn’t get pregnant from him so she could try to get millions in child support.


    I think Kobe is 1 of the best in the game right now. Him and Tmac make things look so easy when they are out there its not even funny. As far as pure scoring ability I think the list goes Kobe Tmac and A.I.

    The lakers need a couple more peices to go around him i thought Odom would do better but imo they dont need much
     
  9. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    The Lakers have a good chance of landing Arest. If this happens they have an excellent chance of making the playoffs.
     
  10. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    ..and Jalen Rose.

    I like the Lakers chances as well.

    Indiana doesn't end up with hardly anything in that deal though. :confused:

    They lose Artest and Croshere and get Devean George, a draft pick and some fluff.

    I don't get it.
     
  11. Jackattaq

    Jackattaq First Round Draft Pick

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    I watched Lakers last night

    the way that the Refs bend over for the Lakers is absolutely sickening. Kobe took an inadvertent elbow to the eyebrow (requiring stitches) in the 3rd quarter. He felt wronged by it and decided in the fourth quarter to get some retaliation. After Mike Miller blew by his defender (Miller being the guy who hit Kobe in the 3rd accidently) Kobe stepped up to deliver a "forearm shiver" to Miller. He hit him in the face with a forearm and was awarded only a personal foul. In the rules it clearly states that contact of that type delivered above the shoulders would result in an automatic ejection. But NOT FOR KOBE. This was not the only "questionable officiating" going on. The Grizzlies got "jobbed" in LA. It was one of the poorest jobs of one-sided officiating I've seen in a long time. (I had no-vested interest because it wasn't the Pistons). The way that were calling re-affirmed my belief that by far NBA officiating is the worst of all four major sports. Whoever says that officials don't dictate games needed to only see last nights game.
     
  12. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    jack

    Kobe hit Miller in the throat and they gave him a flagrant. He definitely should have been ejected...that WAS BS.
     
  13. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Indiana has Granger, considered the most NBA ready of all the 2005 draft. Ron already compromised their championship chances, this is making the best of a bad situation and clearing a lot of cap room.
     
  14. 1989

    1989 First Round Draft Pick

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    Re: playoffs: I think the Lakers make the playoffs even if they don't make any moves. They've lost a few recently but were playing well before that, and I think they can sneak in as a lower seed. I'm impressed with the job PJ has done in turning them around.

    Re: officiating: Kobe does get the benefit of the doubt more often than not, but that's true to varying degrees of all the league's stars. I don't agree with it, but it's been that way as long as I can remember, and I've just come to accept it as being part of the game I suppose. :ohwell:

    No one got more calls than MJ. Sure, he was a great player, but the league has a vested interest in making their stars shine as bright as possible, so calls tend to go in their favour. I'm not suggesting this happens because of some decree from on high, although it wouldn't shock me if that was the case.

    Anyway, the key point is that biased officiating is not about conspiracy-theories; rather, it's an institutional thing: it's better for business if guys like MJ and Kobe are favoured, so they are.

    However, I would also take this one step further and suggest that, in the playoffs, entire teams are sometimes favoured over others. I don't think I'm going on a limb by suggesting that nothing would make David Stern happier than to have the Knicks and the Lakers in the Finals every other year. I think a recent example of this kind of favouritism was the 2001 Eastern Finals, when it seemed as if the Bucks were climbing uphill from the start. To their credit, they still stretched it to a seventh game, but I firmly believe the NBA wanted the 76ers in the Finals against the Lakers. Watching Stern sharing a laugh with Mutombo in the stands as the series was coming to a close did nothing to disabuse me of this impression. I might also mention the 1991 Eastern Finals, but as a Pistons fan, I couldn't possibly hope to comment objectively about that....:)
     
  15. Zoso

    Zoso First Round Draft Pick

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    Kobe suspended two games

    Kobe suspended two games for elbowing Miller

    Los Angeles Lakers guard Kobe Bryant has been suspended for two games without pay for by the NBA for elbowing Memphis' Mike Miller in the throat, Stu Jackson, the league's senior vice president of basketball operations, announced.
     
  16. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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  17. Zoso

    Zoso First Round Draft Pick

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    detteam

    I agree, det.

    What he did was deplorable. The ref's ought to be ashamed of themselves for not ejecting Kobe. If any single act warranted an ejection, Kobe's forearm shiver was definitely it. He really laid the wood to Miller's throat. I definitely think he got off lightly with the two-game slap on the wrist. It was obvious that he really was trying to inflict pain. An act like that should've been met with a five-game rap, if not more. Especially when you consider some of the comments he made.
     
  18. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    even more nasty Kobe *LINK*

    Maybe Kobe's getting psyched-up for Artest's arrival. :P
     
  19. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Holy Crap!

    Kobe just torched the Raptors for 81 points!

    The 2nd highest point total in NBA history.

    I hate the guy with a passion, but dang, that's a pretty good game.
     
  20. 1989

    1989 First Round Draft Pick

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    I wish I'd seen it!

    I've already talked about Kobe going for 51 in 31, or 62 in 33. Now he's gone for 81 in 42!

    Some people got on him and PJ for each of the earlier games, saying that he should have stayed in and gotten as many points as he could. Personally, I've always agreed with him sitting out the fourth Q because really, the games were over.

    Last night was different apparently. The Lakers were down by 18 early in the third, Kobe was mad, and he found about six extra gears. He scored 27 of the Lakers' 42 in the 3rd Q and 28 of the Lakers' 31 in the 4th, securing the W.

    Kobe had a double-nickel in the second half! Only Wilt has ever done that (59, actually). Only Wilt had ever before gone for 80. In fact, the list of 70+ games is a short one:

    Wilt (100, 78, 73x2, 72, 70)
    Kobe (81)
    D. Thompson (73)
    Admiral (71)
    Elgin (71)

    That's it.

    I wish I'd seen it....
     

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