The Larry Brown Curse

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by roscoe36, Mar 14, 2014.

  1. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    I totally agree with this. He was on his way out and looking for an even bigger payday. I loved Larry, but I don't think his leaving was on the Pistons management, despite the fact that he was fired.
     
  2. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    I figured he was fired. That appeared to be the plan.
     
  3. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    But wasn't management down on him prior to the Rasheed trade? (Feb of his first year with the team.) He wasn't angling for a new job then, was he?
     
  4. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    This is correct.
     
  5. max

    max All-Star

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    LB was hinting around about retiring during the 04 championship celebration and it was a rocky year between him and management through 05.

    AS I recall Final straw was when he Told the Pistons after the 05 season that due to his health that he may not be able to coach the whole season in 05/06 - or something to the effect of dont count on me to make it through the season if you retain me. Then after he was "fired" he is signing that deal with the Knicks with no further concerns about "making it though the year" as the Knicks head coach.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2014
  6. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    Lets put things in perspective: Only 8 teams out of 30 have won a title in the past 20 years. Only 9 have won when you extend the date range to 30 years. Portland came close in the late 80's and early 90's but the dry spell has lasted 20 years. The last time the 76er's won at title was in 1983. The last time the Knicks won a title was in 1973.
    Its RARE for a championship caliber team to emerge. And when it does, it has a definite lifespan.

    Was Dumars and co. wrong to ditch Carlisle in favor of Brown? A championship title in hand is worth two in some hypothetical scenario.

    Very few teams can rebound after a championship bid. Its ridiculously difficult.

    My personal take on the whole situation was that Ben Wallace was the heart, the keystone, of a very talented team and its ace player. I think Flip marginalized him too soon but everyone saw that he was on the decline. If the culture still fed off of him instead of moving in another direction, would things have changed? The NBA was jobbing everyone not named James or Wade in an effort to put a transcendent hero up for public consumption. What was demoralizing at each free agent signing was how everyone was the antithesis of Ben Wallace.
     
  7. webz

    webz All-Star Snub Administrator 2x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Yep, I think so too. Probably we were just a very good team rather than a dynasty that excelled in 2 of those 03-08 years. Even if we did retain Ben instead of letting him go remember that he was injury plagued the next few seasons with the Bulls/Cavs who did not get their money's worth - so the results likely would have been the same. As much as most of us didn't like the AI/CB swap, we had reached our ceiling, the team was going nowhere and the window was all but closed. There is no definitive thing I can put my finger on and say "if this had been different we'd been a championship contender". Better off maybe, but contender not really. And that's with the benefit of hindsight.

    I'd definitely take the 1 ship in the hand, but winning in 05 would have made this current period a little more easier to swallow.
     
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  8. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    So now we're debating if the post-LB teams were even contenders?

    It's fascinating how unpopular the '04 team is.
     
  9. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

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    If you want to fix the franchise, I think the answer is, simply, this:

    Make Larry brown a (very) lucrative offer to become our next president / general manager. Give him total control, and in exchange, demand a massive buy out clause in his contract. Emphasis-Massive.

    Hopefully he will then decide to make rick Carlisle an offer to become our next head coach ~ giving him a contract w the job security that could pull him from Dallas.

     
  10. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Larry Brown is a bad person.
     
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  11. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

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    Detroit alienated both Carlisle and Brown, firing the first for personality reasons after two great seasons and canning the second after a rumored flirtation with Cleveland, so neither one is going to come here - not when Dallas can (and will) offer Carlisle more to stay and not when Brown can be (and is) happier in college.

    The franchise doesn't really need to be "fixed." We all agree that there are assets on this team that every team in the league would love to have (Drummond, Monroe), as well as cap space (and, hopefully, a lottery pick this year) to acquire more. What it needs is a GM with a vision and for Gores to have the patience to let that vision develop. If (and it's a big if) the Pistons were to, say, hire a quality coach and luck out in the lottery and end up with someone like Jabari Parker, this team looks very, very different next year. As with all championship teams, it requires a little luck, but it's not like this team is as currently hopeless as Milwaukee or Philadelphia.
     
  12. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    Dumars' biggest failure: not drafting Wade. Even if we never played him and he became a star elsewhere, the chances of him hooking up with Shaq then James in Miami would have been real slim. :P
     
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  13. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    Among the old forum members there was huge criticism of RC for his over controlled (RC calling every play) stagnant offense. I think we are rewriting history because RC has been so successful. At the time he wasn't that popular with fans.
     
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  14. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I always thought RC got the most out of his squads. I know you had a soft spot for team secretaries and that was Carlisle's defining weakness.
     
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  15. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I'll be honest, my memory is pretty poor to begin with, and maybe I just missed that stuff altogether, but I was always cool with RC. Those teams played well considering the mish-mash of talent he had to work with.
     
  16. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    Sometimes the a secretary might say "Good Morning Rick" and he would say "What's good about it?"
     
  17. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    I always thought the Bad Boys were pretty cool. However, the slow, but unmistakable incremental progress towards greatness during the Carlisle years was what made me a permanent Pistons fan. The 2004 championship was just the icing on the cake.

    To comment on the original post that started the thread. I do believe in bad karma and all that. I think that the playoff losses during the Saunders era were part of that karma. Everything that happened post CB-Iverson trade is just pure incompetence.

    The Billups trade had to be done. That core had reached its ceiling as mentioned earlier in this thread, and had to be broken up. It could've been the first move that could've eventually turned us into contenders again about 3 years ago. But, every move after that unfortunately reeked of incompetence.
     
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  18. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    That's not Detroit Basketball.
     
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  19. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Knowing that, I can't believe Dumars didn't pull the trigger sooner.
     
  20. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Sounds like he got to the office nice and early.
     

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