The Official Rebuild the Pistons Thread

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by RipBillupsRJC, May 24, 2008.

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Should we dismantle the team?

Poll closed Jun 14, 2008.
  1. Yes, we need to trade one starter.

    14 vote(s)
    29.2%
  2. Yes, we need to trade two starters.

    18 vote(s)
    37.5%
  3. Yes, we need to trade at least three starters.

    3 vote(s)
    6.3%
  4. No, you're overreacting and need to shut up. All you do is complain and whine.

    10 vote(s)
    20.8%
  5. No, they have more time to win another 'ship.

    3 vote(s)
    6.3%
  1. tads

    tads First Round Draft Pick

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    Although it makes a lot of sense to trade rasheed since he's in the last year of his deal and he is slowly becoming a liability for reasons other than just his attitude, the five on the floor doesn't matter that much. The pistons need a coach they actually believe in who will motivate them to play hard in games. When LB would call a time out he would talk to the players and maybe even draw up a play. When flip calls a time out he doesn't say anything to the players and conferences with the coaches at the free throw line. No one wants to play hard for a leader like that. We definitely have a five good enough to be in the top tier of the NBA but unless flip, or curry, or whoever coaches next isn't ready to get in these guys faces and challenge them to play their hardest on every possession offense and defense they'll be spending june fishing year after year.
  2. Dumars4Ever

    Dumars4Ever Bench Warmer

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    A lot of teams would be perfectly happy to get to the conference finals 6 years in a row, with two finals appearances and one title to show for it. The overwhelming majority of teams in the lottery each year get precisely NOTHING for it. You're talking about winning titles, not just "improving."

    Getting close to the finals 3 years in a row without making it is certainly disappointing in its own way, and I'm not saying things couldn't have worked out better if some other moves had been made. But "gee, I wish we had been in the lottery" is not the conclusion I'm going to draw from it.
  3. Dumars4Ever

    Dumars4Ever Bench Warmer

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    Tell that to the 90% of teams in the league that have no realistic shot at even contending for the title. Or to the team that just beat us, with their own coach of questionable playoff acumen but with an infinitely better five on the floor than they've had in decades.
  4. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    I really don't care. I am only surprised right now...usually I am ticked. Here are problems:

    1. Chauncey's injury. Everything was going great until the Chauncey injury. After coming back against Philly this team looked the most poised out of all the contenders. This is only 10% of the reason we lost this series though. We still stole HCA in Game 2, we still had a chance on the road in Game 5, and we were up 10 in the 4th. Ten!

    2. Rasheed Wallace. He kept his cool. Through all the bad calls on him and his team in the 4th quarter. Problem was his game on the field though. 2-12 with Perkins guarding him? If Sheed did not change for this game he is never going to. If Rasheed is traded though this statistically good defensive team (but not intimidating anymore) will turn into nothing on defense. I will give Rasheed's poor play a 20% on the reason's we lost.

    3. Tayshaun Prince and the rest of the perimeter defense. This team just gets burned everytime late in the playoffs by a strong perimeter player (First Wade, then LeBron, and now Pierce) This gets a very high percentage of 40%. This lack of perimeter defense and rebounding from the guards has been our flaw the last 3 ECF's.

    4. Lack of penetration and energy. The previous 2 years this was probably the biggest problem. Stuckey, Lindsey, and Maxiell changed that these playoffs but it was not enough. Why? Because the starters play in crunch time. Chauncey, Rip, Sheed, and Dice all can shoot jumpers so they settle way too much. Tayshaun just never does anything. This is 20% of the reason we lost too.

    5. Flip Saunders. If you add up the previous points Flip only accounts for 10% of the blame, but the percentage is going above 100. This is because Flip is responsible for all the problems above too. He was doing great in the playoffs until this game. When that lead started to dwindle Flip did not do any changes or anything. Just disappointing. I think he is gone next year.

    I think the run is truly over now. My false hope is gone now. If the Pistons choked against a team with their best player as a choke then the job cannot be done.
  5. alexa032

    alexa032 Team Captain

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    My bet's on Sheed being gone, allowing us to transition into a semi-rebuilding phase.
  6. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    You're not giving me enough credit if you're thinking that I've come to such a single faceted conclusion.

    This has nothing to do with "gee, I wish we'd been in the lottery".

    This has everything to do with moves could have made us better, and even if they would have made us worse, it would have improved our draft position which, wow, could have still conversely ended up making us better.


    As far as I'm concerned being proactive and taking action would have given us many more opportunities to be better than we are today. At least more opportunities than standing pat while our old complacent fat cats get even older and more complacent.


    And it's not like the team that just beat us aren't about to get the chance to win the championship solely on the way they were able to parlay their last few lottery picks into two superstar players.
  7. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    darko for tay trade works straight up.
  8. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I am all in favor of this move, but we got to get some real players for him. One that can start and one who will give us more than 15 mins off the bench.

    Some folks thought bringing in Artest would be a distraction, but at this point whats the difference. Send Sheed and Afflolo to the Kings for Artest, Francisco Garcia and the Kings 12 pick...the Maloofs would never make that deal, but Joe has to throw out there on the table this summer. Can't continue to pick up stiffs like, Nazr, Hayes, Delk and Mo Evans every summer thinking they are the missing bench piece to add with Hunter that will spell the starters.
  9. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    I wouldn't trade Sheed unless you absolutely want to gut our defense. Play him less min. Start Amir. It will re-energize him playing next to Amir. Maybe play him more with the bench, not exactly off the bench.

    Trading Sheed will be a HUGE mistake IMO.
  10. alexa032

    alexa032 Team Captain

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    It might be. But, he's the obvious choice. I don't want him to go because I think he's a great influence on the young bigs, but he's also an expiring contract, which might be a determining factor. It's a tough choice. I wouldn't mind bringing him off the bench, or trading someone else (maybe Dice, Max) to diversify the frontcourt. Someone has to go. We cannot have two jumpshooting big men in a starting five that already has 2 jumpshooting guards and a jumpshooting SF who disappears.
  11. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    I agree w/ that, but i'm leaning towards Dice. He cannot play in the post like Sheed and his defense ranges from ok to atrocious. The question is will Joe D have the heart to do it?

    If he can trade him to a contender . . .

    edited to add;

    Dice says he might retire so maybe that problems solved. However, it could just be emotion talking.
  12. alexa032

    alexa032 Team Captain

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    I was just about to post the quote:

    It's likely just emotion, as you said, but just how much more of these types of endings can the guy take? And, it's likely we take a step back next year trying to improve for the long haul, so it might come down to if he thinks we're still good enough or not.
  13. NYPistonFan729

    NYPistonFan729 Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    I am tired of dyess emotional breakdown; he should have shown this emotion during the game; he was not aggressive last night; he passed up good shots; enough of his crying. grow a couple
  14. tads

    tads First Round Draft Pick

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    Of the ten percent of teams that do have a shot at winning the title which is bascially the spurs the lakers and these celitcs we just lost to, I'll take our starting five but why are they still playing, or in the case of the spurs have more rings? Better coaching.

    The coaches of the other teams actually motivate and maybe even inspire their teams to play their hardest and stick to the game plan no matter what the situation. Their players respect them and want to play hard for them. Our players don't respect our coach, and definitely aren't motivated to play hard and stick to the game plan.

    But because we have a great team on the floor, that can win 50 games and get into the eastern conference in their sleep they aren't going to win it all unless they can get a coach they all believe in.

    If we trade sheed or not, if we don't get a coach in there that will get the players to stay on the same page all season long and through the finals we'll have this same conversation again next year.
  15. RipBillupsRJC

    RipBillupsRJC Second Round Draft Pick

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    Fixed for more troof.
  16. Dumars4Ever

    Dumars4Ever Bench Warmer

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    Really? Our starting five was better than the Celtics' five in the 4th quarter last night, but just got outcoached? Is that what people think happened?
  17. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    The problem the last few years is that we have been running an offense that is geared to get open jump shots without having good jump shooters. Rip can hit the curl and CB can hit the spot up jumper consistently but after that... nothing. Couple that with bigs that tend to float out of the paint and you get consistent one and done offensive possessions.

    If you are going to keep the current offense; you need to get consistent jump shooters. My feel would be to move a little more up tempo when you AJ to the mix with another person willing to rebound.
  18. tads

    tads First Round Draft Pick

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    In the fourth quarter, like in so many others, our offense was completely flat and rasheed and chauncey started settling for jumpers. When they did try to go inside it the rest of the team was cleared out to the other side and watched as one player tried to beat his man either in the post or off the dribble. Then Kevin Garnett comes in and we know he can shoot over maxiel and there is no defensive adjustment. If you didn't have any coach on the bench and just told the guys to go out and play five on five it would probably look the same.

    Also, they lacked something bigger than just the in-game-adjustment part of coaching. The whole piston ethic of working hard and going after every rebound seemed gone, its the coach who needs to hold the players accountable to that, and that has been declining on a long term basis since flip got here.
  19. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    We need a SG/SF who can take it to the rim. Stuckey and Maxiel are here to stay. They did very well. I think Theo is a nice backup Center too. This team needs a slasher off the bench badly.

    If Flip remains coach than I see major trades, which drastically change the starting 5. If we get a new coach (Avery Johnson anyone) I do not see drastic changes, but I can see changes.

    I am going to assume the best scenario for the Pistons. I hope they get Avery Johnson. He has won a championship and has also reached the Finals as a coach. The guy would hold players more accountable and is tougher than Flip. If he cannot come in here and start getting this team to stop teams and try scoring inside than the team must be changed drastically. If he can do this than the Pistons just need to get deeper and play those guys a lot more, especially Stuckey.

    Flip is the main problem, not Sheed. One of them is going no matter what and I would not be surprised if both left. If Sheed gets traded and Flip stays though I give up. This team would be truly soft after that.
  20. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    I don't see us getting anything for Wallace in the trade market so keep him, but keep reducing his mins... Next year has to be the year for Amir, either he's ready for major mins in the eyes of the pistons or he needs to be traded. I still think our guard situation is good enough to win... but if need be i'm willing to say trade AA for pieces if there not going to go with a 4 guard rotaton next year... and as good as stuckey seems to be, he really needs to be on the floor for 25-30 mins min.

    dyss needs to move to the big man on the bench for spot mins....

    I think either a traded player/Amir with the other 4 starters with a hard nose def coach will give this team a chance to win again next year.

    Currey would be a nice coach, though is he to close to this years failure? Avery would be nice too.... but did choke in the finals two years ago... but is that because he had a soft team or was it him? who knows.....

    But if nothing else changes this summer Flip has to go.

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