The Point Guard Obsession

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Kerghan, May 24, 2013.

  1. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    7. Rodney Stuckey
    8. Will Bynum
    9. Brendon Knight
    10. Sue Bird
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  2. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    I like weed too! :thumb[1]:
    Super Mario is the 3rd best PG on his TEAM behind James and Wade.
  3. The Panda

    The Panda All-Star Forum Donor

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    Nah I am way too high.
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  4. The Panda

    The Panda All-Star Forum Donor

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    I find it hard to put elite point guards in an actual order. But my top 5 would be (in no order)
    -Rondo
    -Paul
    -Rose
    -Westbrook
    -Curry (when healthy)

    Since Rose and Rondo didn't play this year I would probably slot in Jrue Holiday and probably Tony Parker.

    6-10
    -Vasquez
    -Ty Lawson
    -Irving
    -John Wall
    -Deron Williams. He can still ball

    Honorable mentions
    -Jose Calderon (can't play defense very well 1 on 1)
    -Mike Conley (the opposite)
    -Eric Bledsoe (needs more minutes)
  5. PistonsPoland

    PistonsPoland First Round Draft Pick

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    Mike Conley is ONE OF THE BEST and really your list is not good. First of all I think you forgot Tony Parker the best PG this season. Besides that I agree that top 5 is ok, but Conley can be no 6-7 right now. He played just terrific in Playoffs and his defense was amazing.

    No Lawson, No Wall, Hell no Vasquez, Deron Williams maybe, Irving showed nothig besides some flashy plays and being injured all the time.

    I hate Brandon Knight - Mike Conley comparision, Mike from start was a few levels above Brandon.
  6. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    My guess is that he just forgot about Parker. I would have rated Conley higher too, the only player in the 6-10 group that's better than him is Irving.
  7. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    Actually, Conley S U C K E D his first couple of seasons.
    ...His numbers were about the same as BK7's first two years.

    I'm not an officer in the Brandon Knight fan club or anything but I have no reason to believe that the kid can't be as good as Mike Conley. He's hella smart and works hard. He just needs to improve his shot and work on not throwing the ball to the other team so much.

    I CERTAINLY don't think that he's peaked and he's way to intelligent to be a NBA bust.
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  8. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Conley's contract was laughable when it was entered into. Now it looks like a bargain.

    Knight's 3-point shooting, slashing ability, and defense are all very attractive skills. His passing is actually OK too (for a scorer) if you ignore the turnovers. And a lot of the turnovers are ball handling related, not bad passes. Not sure if that's any better, but it should be recognized.

    What can he realistically do to improve his game? Increased vision is unrealistic. I would say that if he can become more disciplined as a passer and continue to work on his handle, that is about the best he can do. His passion is evident and he has the personality to become an actual leader if his game improves a little more... people listen to you more if they respect your abilities.


    I'm optimistic that Knight can become a legit PG for a Championship team potentially, but I realize that he's not there yet and may never be. It will depend on him, the coaching staff, and possibly the right veteran mentor. Also, it would help if the team had an identity that fit his skills and limitations. IMO, a defensive team really fits him as he's pretty good on the break and he can harass opposing PG's if he doesn't have to sag off of them.
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  9. The Panda

    The Panda All-Star Forum Donor

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    I quite clearly put Tony Parker in the top five . Secondly, I clearly said that I was not ranking them, just putting them in groups. And no he hasn't been the best PG, by any standard, so lets just put that to bed right now.

    John Wall turned a .250 team into a .520 overnight. Vasquez had the highest ast rate in the league on a terrible team and a 34.7%ast rate. Lawson spearheaded the high energy of Denver and had a good handle on the ball despite his high usage rate. Irving posted a 21.5 PER on a terrible team and played in 59 games. Included ones he was injured in. Deron Williams is a fantastic point guard and if you think otherwise you have lost your mind.

    Conley thrives because of the team he is on. I don't actually see him as being all that fantastic, but maybe I need to watch him more often. I don't know. I put him on the honorable mentions because he deserves to be in the discussion, so stop pretending that I don't acknowledge that he has any talent at all.
  10. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Be nice.


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  11. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    I think John Wall is one of the most overrated players in the league right now. He's a good player, no doubt, but he's just that: a good player. He's not great. He turns the ball over too much. His career shooting is 24.3% from the 3pt range.

    Just for comparison of career stats

    John Wall/Rodney Stuckey
    FG%: .423/.421
    3P%: .243/.288
    FT%: .785/.826
    TS%: .504/.511
    Reb: 4.4/3.1
    Ast: 8.0/4.2
    Stl: 1.5/1.0
    TO: 3.7/2.0
    Pts: 16.9/13.4
    ORtg: 101/106
    DRtg: 107/111
    WS (Stuckey's last 3 seasons): 10.2/12
    PER: 17.7/15.6

    His shooting percentages are almost as good as Rodney the-SG-that-can't-shoot Stuckey. He rebounds and steals a bit better and scores about 3.5 pts more per game. He averaged twice the assists as Stuckey but also turned the ball over twice as much. Stuckey is slightly better offensively whereas Wall is slightly better defensively.

    Overall, you have a player who is a marginally improved version of Stuckey. He's a starter PG in this league, but so is Mario Chalmers. The only way Wall gets some success is if he's third fiddle in a team filled with superstars.
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  12. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    If Wall would keep up the game he played during the last part of this season he'd be a top 5 PG but I also remember The Joggernaught ending last season with all-star numbers. Wall do have the tools to become a top 3 PG though.
  13. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Wall had 372 assists compared to 91 passing turnovers last season. 4.1 to 1.0 ratio. The rest of his turnovers were ball handling and charges. 55 ball handling turnovers and 11 offensive fouls.

    Rondo had 419 assists compared to 103 passing turnovers last season. 4.1 to 1.0 ratio. 33 ball handling turnovers and 12 offensive fouls.

    Wall's PG skills seem a little like Rondo's, it's just that he has a few more ball handling turnovers. Maybe he's forcing the action too much? They are also similar in that they have poor accuracy from long range.
  14. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    Damn.
    ...when you put it that way.

    Welp, ...it's off to the Trade Machine to see if a Wall for Stuckey deal works.
  15. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    I was thinking there is no way that Washington would do a Wall for Stuckey trade straight up. Sure, their numbers are close, but why give up a guy just to get a guy back with the same numbers? If we include Villanueva in the deal, the numbers look like this:

    Wall/ Stuckey+Villanueva

    Fg%: .423/ .421+.441=.861
    3pt%: .243/ .288+.387=.675
    FT%: .785/ .826+.727=1.553!

    You can do the rest if you want, but believe me, other than turnovers, all the numbers look much better. Get It Done, Joe and Phil Jackson!



  16. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    I don't know, when I read the #'s from Wall's 1st 3 years and Stuckey's last 3 rookie years Wall looks like a much better player.

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