The race for the most ping pong balls

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by BillLaimbeer, Jan 19, 2012.

  1. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    True but Stack was was a star and you can't say he didn't have Grant Hill or Ben Wallace (he had Grant Hill when he took over and that was a huge tradeable asset)...and he had so many more tradeable assets as listed above. He was in much better shape then than now.
     
  2. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    agreed here........
     
  3. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Joe took over a 2000 playoff team that had just finished 42-40. It had two players (Stackhouse, Hill) averaging well over 20 points. He couldn't convince Hill to sign, but Stackhouse was still under contract for a few years. There were certainly a couple of deadbeat slugs (Laettner, Vaught) on that team, but it was a playoff team. This 2012 team is not a playoff team.
     
  4. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I can't believe you did that analysis. That was awesome!!
     
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  5. J-Train

    J-Train Team Captain Forum Donor

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    He also got Chuck Chuck for Grant, who was good for 10+ points a game. That first year team is clearly better than this current bunch. Stack led the league in scoring that year, I believe. This year's team doesn't even have a 20 ppg scorer. Even pre-Lebron Cleveland had Ricky Davis. Chucky and Stack would own young Knight and Gordon. Joe Smith would start on this year's team. Young Ben Wallace would put a beating on Greg Monroe. Can you imagine Corliss taking JJ down onto the block? Prince would hold his own, but that would be about it. That team would take 9 out of 10 on this year's. And that Irvine team sucked.

    The next year, Joe picked up Jon Barry for nothing, and that guy stirred the drink for that second unit. He was ahead of the curve on Euros, which is how he stole Rebraca and Okur for two 2nd round picks. He dumped somebody on Phoenix for Uncle Cliff. Michael Curry was still a quality 20 minute a night guy. Don't forget Rodney White. I know I can't. He rented a whole bunch of quality vets with the plan of going big in free agency a year or two later. Under this new CBA, you've got to build with the draft.
     
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  6. J-Train

    J-Train Team Captain Forum Donor

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    That was awesome.
     
  7. Winless Wonders

    Winless Wonders Starter Forum Donor

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    If Joe amnesty Charlie V. or Gordon and not signed Stuckey or Tay back Dumars could have made major strides in turning this roster around. While he didn't have tradeable assets he had something more valuable cap space and lots of it. With that space and money available he could have signed any free agent and also been a trade partner to facilitate Chris Paul or Dwight Howard going to another team while gaining a draft pick and a player in return.
     
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  8. J-Train

    J-Train Team Captain Forum Donor

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    Why would any free agent want to come to this team as it is, much less as it would be without Tay, Gordon, or Stuckey? Gordon is a huge disappointment, but he still has some cache with players around the league. No, in today's NBA, you need a solid young core to lure your FAs, or have enough cap space to bring in a couple/few max guys. Besides, FAs don't come to Detroit for the lifestyle, like they do in LA, Miami, and NY.

    The smart play here is to draft three building blocks, a couple young, impact role players, and then use cap space/expiring contracts to bring in a star.

    I think that we can assume that Greg Monroe is a quality big. We can also assume that JJ is a very nice bench guy. I believe that his ceiling is a "sixth man of the year" type player. Prince is rock solid and well respected throughout the league. Prince's game isn't going to change too much over the next 2-3 years. IF Knight is legit (I think that he is), AND Stuckey can prove to be a quality 3rd guard, AND we draft an impact guy in next year's draft (Drummond or Davis?), then we could possibly use Gordon and "Garbage Charlie" to pick up a star who is ready to bolt his current team. After that, you pick up a couple of promising, young 20 something role players via free agency/ trade, and you're back in business.
     
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  9. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    These are nice steps to improve the franchise. I numbered the ones that I felt were improbable. Still...you're counting on a lot of things to go right using Joe Dumars as our guide to this plan.
     
  10. J-Train

    J-Train Team Captain Forum Donor

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    Thanks for the feedback, Nemo. I've been having a jones for for talking some Pistons.

    You don't think that Monroe is a quality big, or you don't think that JJ could become a top end bench guy? It's well documented that I'm a Greg Monroe fan, so I'll not belabor that point. Everything about JJ screams to me "Top Notch Bench Guy!". He can shoot, hustle, and occasionally hit the glass. He doesn't need the ball. Maybe "sixth man of the year" is a bit lofty, but I did say that it was his "ceiling".

    As for "3", do you have a criticism of Prince (I know I do), or are you really not liking what you're seeing out of Knight?

    As for "4", I have no idea if Stuckey can be "that guy". I can tell you that if he is a NBA player, then that's his role.

    As for "5", the odds support your position. It IS unlikely.

    As for "6", who knows? The whole point of preparing yourself to take advantage of a future opportunity is to be able to take advantage of an opportunity when it presents itself. None of us know what that opportunity might be, but it would be nice to be in a position in which we could capitalize on some other team's misfortune. It would be our gift watching this travesty.

    As for "7-8", It sounds like you're just not into trusting Joe right now, which is understandable. If I'm wrong on that, let me know, brother.

    Thanks again.
     
  11. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Monroe is solid. Jerebko is solid. Knight is legit. We will definitely get an impact player in the draft.

    Stuckey sucks. Prince sucks. Can I say sucks in the new forum? Not sure. I have lost confidence in Dumars so I don't have a good feeling about trades and free agency if Gores doesn't give Joe D the boot.
     
  12. max

    max All-Star

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    Exactly. Now we have no cap space to boot.

    One could justify Prince and perhaps even signing Stuckey individually but in the end you are still left with a non-playoff team and no cap space. Something is very wrong when that happens.
     
  13. Brap

    Brap Starter

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    We'll have a ton of cap room in a few years, when having a ton of cap room will actually help us. Right now, cap room would make zero difference.

    The hope is we dramatically add to our young talent base. In two or three years, we can then add the right veterans to fill in around that talent base. If we're super-lucky, perhaps a prime free agent will want to join a team with assets like Monroe and Knight showing off all-star caliber chops, the 2012 and 2013 draft picks looking outstanding, and Stuckey and Daye and JJ all proving their worth in this league.
     
  14. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Was just looking at the early draft projections.

    At #6, HoopsHype has Michael Kidd-Gilchrist

    "Gilchrist's teammate Anthony Davis often gets compared to Kevin Garnett, but it's M-KG that has KG's heart and passion. A strong 6-foot-7 forward with substantial length (7-foot wingspan) and athleticism, Gilchrist projects as a shutdown defender who is likely to guard the opponent's top gun. He may not be your most adept shot creator, but nobody plays with a higher motor. With strong character and a team-first mentality, NBA coaches will love what this kid brings to the table. What's more, MKG was given Coach Calipari's endorsement as their top player midway through the season."

    They compare him to Gerrald Wallace.

    So, if our tank runs out of gas, we have him to fall back on it looks like.
     
  15. Brap

    Brap Starter

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    Our team is dying (pretty literally dying) for a big man to compliment Monroe. Without another big man, we'll get totally killed in the paint and rebounding again next year.

    I doubt the Pistons will look at another wing player unless they just cannot help it.
     
  16. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I thought Joe's middle name was just-cannot-help-it.
     
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  17. max

    max All-Star

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    6' 7" forward sounds about right. With a 7' wing span no less. Then we can hear all about how he could have been a top 3 pick after JD picks him.
     
  18. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    I'm just lacking confidence in the overall franchise right now. Nobody has bowled me over with their decision-making to this point Not the head coach this season, nor JD over the last few.

    I'm glad to see that some see positive with this situation. I'm still waiting for more before I get excited.
    I tend to be a wins/losses kind of guy when judging results.
     
  19. Winless Wonders

    Winless Wonders Starter Forum Donor

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    I hope you are right, but that is wishful thinking. In 3 years Monroe's contract will be up. If we are not showing signifcant progress toward winning he might want to leave or may be too expensive to resign. It doesn't take 4 or 5 years to rebuild if the GM knows talent and doesn't sign muiltiple players to bad contracts. Why do we have guy's making 7 and 8 million a season coming off the bench or not even playing?
     
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  20. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    I don't think JD has that much time to screw things up to make things right. Still, whatever the situation in Management, I just hope that measurable progress is made so Monroe doesn't leave. See........everybody is looking at positive possibilities here. Monroe leaving because this team stays mired in the mud of ineptitude is the other side of the coin. A side that Gores will look to prevent.
     

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