The race for the most ping pong balls

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by BillLaimbeer, Jan 19, 2012.

  1. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    Our TO issue is a case of one step back to take two plus steps forward IMO, a rookie PG in this league is just going to turn the ball over more then winning basketball allows.

    I keep thinking about all the kids on the team are in early season form from the movie hoosiers.... got to break the horses down and build them from the ground up. Its going to look ugly for awhile, but its time well spent building a solid foundation.

    I'm nowhere saying how good we'll be come late spring, but remember how bad Detroit looked early 04, as Brown broke the boys down.... We arn't going to be a playoff team, but I'd expect were going to be alot better of a team in April, then we were in Dec.
  2. Nemo

    Nemo Pun Master Forum Donor

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    Stuckey shot 44% last season........this year he's at 38%
    certainly........less team assisits than last season per game.
  3. max

    max All-Star

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    If I could set the rules I would think about throwing out the lottery draft. One ball for each team. Throw all 30 team pongs in a drum and pick them out 1 by 1 to determine the draft order. No reward for losing and no penalty for winning. You should not be rewarded for being a bad GM and badly managing your team. Maybe then I would not have to secretly hope that my team loses so we can get more ping pong balls a few months from now. Its too early to throw in the towel for next season.

    Back in the 90's it was one and only one year, we tanked got G.Hill and moved on. Its been 3 years running now with this.

    sorry to vent.
  4. Nemo

    Nemo Pun Master Forum Donor

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    Makes sense........but I'd be mad if LA and Miami picked 1 and 2.............
  5. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    That's how we do it in Europe. You don't get any benefits for being bad over here and in almost all leagues the teams last in the league either get kicked out instantly or have to play some kind of qualification games against the best teams in a lower league. And no salary caps, maximum contracts and stuff like that. The best teams actually get a boatload more money in prizes and stuff like that so being good is rewarded.

    I like the draft system and closed leagues though, but there is a lot of more excitement if a couple of teams league existence is at stake in the end of the season instead of a bunch of teams tanking.
  6. max

    max All-Star

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    It would all be out in the open so no need to wonder if its legit or not.

    I don't mind salary caps and max contracts for parity, I just want to change this one thing. Some may say you risk losing your fan base. What about all the teams that are good but not good enough for a title? Maybe they are ran really well, have a great GM but just can't seem to get that one lucky break. Under my system teams have a shot at a top 3 pick on average once every 10 years. More importantly, everyone's fan bases always has hope. And you don't have to risk losing fans trying to tank into the top 3, which near the end of the season I suspect a lot more teams are doing that than we realize.
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  7. Nemo

    Nemo Pun Master Forum Donor

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    We'd be the unlucky team that drafts #1 every 100 years........
  8. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    I'm going to think WAAAY outside the box. This is much more complicated but it would work and help the league start to clean up its image by pretty much eliminating tanking. Of course, I realize they would never do this because they apparently like being corrupt.

    The only way to avoid tanking is for teams not to know where they draft until the rules for that year are revealed.

    Now...I believe the league is corrupt and I don't think anyone representing the lottery teams are there to watch the balls drop, but teams do currently know in advance that the X teams gets Y balls. Also, all the other stuff like the #1 -8 team gets a chance at the lottery.

    So..here's what you do...

    Have a representative from each team be there whatever day after the season ends that they reveal the choices. Like, maybe that year they pick out of the hat that only bottom 6 (not 8) teams get a shot at the lottery. Or maybe 10 teams do. But 11 is the maximum in any year.

    So the card for 6 teams that year. Also something revealed on the card like ...say...teams 1-4 get R amount of balls, while 5 & 6 get Z amount.

    Then, another day when you drop the balls for the 6 teams, have representatives from those teams be there to watch the balls determining the draft order drop.

    The next year maybe it is 9 teams getting the draft balls, with teams 1- 3 getting G balls. Teams 4-8 getting H balls and team #9 getting J balls. Whatever the card reveals. So you have the 9 representatives of the original 11 return the next day to watch the balls drop.

    Look, if people can understand the salary cap this would be a piece of cake. Any questions...ask Rascoe or Max. like we do for salary cap questions. :biggrin: Actually, I think even I understand this...We can give it the Laimbeer test, If HE gets it then anyone can.

    I've got a headache. I'm going to sit by the fire with the wifer, read my book, and not think about this.
    max likes this.
  9. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Having the worst teams draft first makes obvious sense. Every major professional league does it that way. Of course, the idea is to try to even out the playing field. It gives the crappy teams something to get excited about.
  10. max

    max All-Star

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    Tater - Thats a good idea. Mix it up a bit.

    The current system sure does appear to be corrupt based on the odd results that we get. I'd like to see a statistician run all the drafts through a model to see if the results really are cosher or not. Then again that major law or auditing firm ( whatever the heck they are ) puts their reputation on the line every year vouching for the results.
  11. Nemo

    Nemo Pun Master Forum Donor

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    Well........after last night, we now have the 2nd worst record in the NBA.
    Only 2 teams with a record below .200........the Pistons and Charlotte.
    We stand at 4-17, while they are at 3-18.
    With Flip gone...the Whizards should continue to improve.......just enough.
    I can now see why we never opened a "2012 prediction thread".
    That woulda been counter-productive to our goal of obtaining the most ping pong balls.
    I'm beginning to think that our championship players are still in Junior High School.
  12. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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  13. Nemo

    Nemo Pun Master Forum Donor

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    Wife told me that this is all part of Joe Dumars' plan. She believes he saw the writing on the wall, even before the season started. She believes that JD knew his days were numbered the day Frank was brought in. He wanted another coach and Gores forced him to bring Frank aboard. As a result, JD takes care of his favorites. Rip Hamilton gets a golden parachute landing in Chicago. Stuckey and Tay are resigned to unreasonable contracts here in Detroit, and JD simply waits for the owner to fire him cause he's not quitting. Tay got 4 years cause Joe favors him more........even though he has no potential, and is much older.

    Whew...........................:)
  14. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    By all accounts, your wife is wiser than you and Dumars combined :pininit:
  15. Nemo

    Nemo Pun Master Forum Donor

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    She offers a lot of insight for me when I'm confused...........
  16. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I don't really see anything strange about the lottery results that are outside of the variability that you'd expect to see. The worst team only has about a 1 in 4 chance of winning afterall. Since 1990, when they formed the current system, here is how it has shaken out (22 lotteries):

    Worst team: 3 wins (Nets, Cavs, Magic)
    2nd worst: 5 wins (Magic, Bucks, 76ers, Clippers, Cavs)
    3rd worst: 4 wins (Spurs, Clippers, Bulls, Wizzards)
    4th worst: 0 wins
    5th worst: 5 wins (Hornets, Warriors, Rockets, Raptors, Wizards)
    6th worst: 2 wins (Bucks, Blazers)
    7th worst: 1 win (Nets)
    8th worst: 0 wins
    9th worst: 1 win (Bulls)
    10th worst: 0 wins
    11th worst: 1 win (Magic)
    12th-14th: 0 wins

    Only one of those teams has won a Championship and that was a little flukey, because they had an injured Hall of Famer when they got their #1 pick (David Robinson).

    So, 12 out of 22 lottery wins were by the bottom 3 seeds: 55%.
    The expected odds of a bottom 3 pick winning the lottery is 60.5%. With only 22 samples, that is clearly within a reasonable variance.

    The bottom 5 seeds have won 17 out of 22: 77.3%
    The expected odds of a bottom 5 winning is 81.2%.

    Just in terms of winning the lottery, things do not appear to be rigged.

    We could take a similar look at the top 3 picks each year, but I'm pretty sure that it would tell the same tale. The point of this system is that it is supposed to produce flukes on occasion... that defeats the tankers. I like the system. You'd clearly still want to have the worst record to get the best odds, but the drop off after that isn't dramatic enough for you to want to obviously tank and get a bad reputation. Stealth tanking is the best strategy.
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  17. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Tanking and planking, baby! I like it!
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  18. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    How come tanking doesn't seem to be such a big issue in the NFL, NHL, or MLB? Is it not happening as much or are the leagues just not suspecting it as much?

    Seems weird either way. Why just the one sport or why would the arguably most corrupt league from top to bottom meaning

    1.Administration why the hell is the ping pong ball thing so secretive...and everything about Stern anyhow...Period.

    2.Referees...taking money on the side to call games unfairly.

    3 Coaches/players tanking games to get some ping pong balls (hell, don't they know you can buy those at Dunhams for $2.59 per dozen).

    4. Arena vendors importing bags of peanuts from countries employing 8 year old kids in sweat factories for pennies per hour. (OK, maybe I made that one up, but you never know).
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  19. webz

    webz All-Star Snub Administrator 2x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    If there is nothing left to play for I think the team/coaches/GM would be stupid to keep trying to win games late in the season. I don't really recall seeing any blatant tanking in the NBA. ie. abusing the morals of the game. If you have some fringe players who you want to see are worth re-signing for next year, give them a run. If you have some young players/rookies who need the experience, get them out there.

    Using a completely different sporting example, in Formula 1 motor racing, teams update and upgrade the parts on their cars all throughout the season. Teams that do not do this fall by the wayside. The only way to win a championship is to constantly update your car.

    The teams who no longer have a chance to win the championship all stop developing the current season's car and start working on next season's car to get a head start on development. Again, I see no problem with that and nobody in F1 circles ever accuses anyone of giving up or tanking. The teams that compete all the way til the end of the championship have some struggles at the start of the next season because they didn't have as much time to work on their new cars.
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  20. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    I don't know how F1 works. I don't follow car racing. Does tanking by one team affect another team's status in the standings in F1 circles?

    e.g. Let's say NBA two teams Golden State and Utah are competing for the final playoff spot. Detroit plays Golden State but Detroit wants to lose it's last five games to ensure they are the worst team that season in order to get the most ping pong balls. Is it fair to Utah that Detroit tanks against Golden State? Is it fair to the Detroit fans who already paid for their tickets to the game?

    I don't like tanking. It seems like every fantasy season someone Bill Laimbeer tanks because his team sucks and then some other team suffers and misses the playoffs because of it. Not me. Because I always get a playoff bye, anyhow (for what it's worth). :nopompom:

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