The real reason we traded Darko and Arroyo

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by 16 Mile, Aug 10, 2006.

  1. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    This trade has always dumbfounded me. It's so one sided, you'd think Isaiah proposed it. IRREGARDLESS of Darko's attitude, he was 20, 7'1", bulking up, getting props from Ben and Sheed, under contract for one more year, and Ben was not a lock. What's to lose by keeping him for another year. Plus Throw in Arroyo for a stiff and a future protected 1st rounder?

    Well, I may have got my answer, quoting Wave from Detnews:

    Arroyo would have been nice Chauncey insurance for the end of next season but the Pistons squandered that trading Darko, claiming that the only way to get value back (in an expiring deal) was to move Arroyo as well. Of course, re-signing Ben Wallace was always a ruse, the money was always being saved for Billups.

    ...

    Trading Darko and the OverDribbler hurts, but not as bad as the tight fisted penny pinching by the Pistons front office. To think they were going to throw the MLE at Flip Murray until their need for Mohammed came up. When it was all said and done, Murray was happy to sign in Detroit for $1.50 and a bus pass. No one wanted him, and no one wanted him for more than the league minimum.

    Yes, it was a lousy offseason by Joe. But at least we don't have to deal with the sulking Serb anymore.



    It makes sense, and now I'm depressed. (Was hoping it was just personal between Joe D and Darko). If this was all done to save money for CB, we're done. Instead of going with 5 potential all-stars, the new motto is 4 guys and a stiff, it's cheaper.

    BTW, Chad Ford says very few teams will have cap space next year, so CB will not too many offers, which means Joe D will lowball him, he'll get po'ed and sign with someone else.:frusty:
  2. max

    max All-Star

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    I hope this does not start a new round of slam the franchise. Last year they gave Prince whatever he wanted. If they were that cheap they would not have done that.

    I loved Ben as much as the next fan but he was slowing down and had an awfull post-season. Its not too far out of the relm of reality that a team would not want to pay him 60 mil over 4 years, perhaps even more? Who knows how far over Chics offer Dumars would have had to go.

    Why has Orlando not re-signed Darko yet? His agent still thinks the kid is worth more than they want to pay. Darko has not proven anything yet. I know he can block a few shots but some nimrod is going to offer the creep a near max deal, and regret it. I think in the future we will be glad that we rid ourselfs of Darko.

    Give it some time.
  3. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    I'm sure Orlando doesn't want to overpay based on a couple months of PT and Darko doesn't want to sign onto a deal if he thinks he can earn a bigger one next year. Either way we won't be glad we got rid of him when we did. At worst, Orlando can pull a sign and trade if he wants too much $$$. In which case his value must be pretty high, and his value is easily 5X what it was when we got rid of him, so they'll get something good in return.
  4. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    1. 16, you love a good conspiracy theory

    2. micro didn't post that here because it is part of a larger article he/I/we are working on, and the looney bin board seemed as good a place as any to test out new material. It should only be taken as unsubstantiated opinion, there is no fact to back any of it up.

    3. This may have people wringing their hands, but what can you do? I love the Pistons, and they are incredibly cheap. It's like being in love with someone that has an annoying laugh. Difficult to tolerate, but not reason enough to end the relationship.
  5. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Joe said he did not regret dealing DMC even after Ben left... there was most likely some bridge burning going on prior to the trade.
    If not then it would certainly have made sense to hold out 'til Ben's deal (or lack of) was done.
    IMO Darko is a PF not a center.... the Magic play Howard like a center and Darko like a PF... it works for them.... we didn't have a space eating scorer to compliment the Serbian Pranksta (er Gangsta).
  6. max

    max All-Star

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    Sign and trades are not always fruitfull. We did get a potentially decent draft pick out of the deal. And no one was really all that hot on Arroyo.
  7. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    LoL
    I guess if I can make up stuff about CB you can make up stuff too.
    As far as CB getting only 1 or 3 offers...One huge desperate one is all it takes. Besides if someone did land CB they might totally retool their team. Not quite the balance of power shift that Shaq caused but maybe some serious jerrymandering.
  8. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    This will be worth a sneak preview... it could be that Joe is positioning himself for next year... loaded with picks (in a good year) and a little wiggle room (prior to CB's decision)... there's the potential for a substantial acquisition.
  9. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    That's an understatement, you should hear my ideas about Bush's plan to still the '06 elections.

    But as for the Pistons, I think I get it. Joe thinks he has enough to win, and doesn't want to pay premium parts that he may not need.

    Let's hope he's right. If Delfino is as good as I think he is, Joe gets a super cheap quality 2/3. If Amir develops, there's another super cheap player. Nazr MLE, Tay, Rip, and Sheed locked in. So Joe opens the bank for CB in a year where teams don't have a lot of money.

    I guess it's nice to have 5 allstars, as long as you don't have to pay them all star money (unless your the knicks who pay 5 scrubs all-star money).

    Hopefully it works out, a core of CB, Rip, Tay and Sheed and Nazr, Dice, and Delfino as the role players, aint all that bad.
  10. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    IMO, people make entirely too much of the fact that Orlando has not locked DMC up as yet. Darko as played fewer than 35 games in his NBA career. The Magic might just be playing it smart. Give him a season doing what they want him to do, along with Dwight, Jameer, Hedo, JJ, et al, and then figure out what they want to offer him. It might be more than they could 'get by with now', but I think Darkio wants to play and to win, so he will be somewhat cooperative, something he might have learned from the Pistons.

    It certainly is to Darko's advantage, as well, because they will, after a full season, see where he fits into the scheme of things, and will pay him accordingly.

    And the Magic management has stated several times that they will pay their players what they are worth without playing mind games, as long as they think those players give them a good chance to win.

    And that is what management should be all about. Sometimes, trying to get by in the cheapest way comes back to bite you.

    As for the main subject of this thread, I have figured it as many ways as I can come up with and have come to realize that they made A HUGE error in judgment. DMC should have been kept ahead of Ben, anyway, because he outscores Ben even on Ben's good nights, blocks just as many shots, and with playing time, is now beginning to rebound. There should have been no doubt in Joe's mind that Darko would blossom eventually and Ben's best days are in the rear view mirror. Sheed's and Dyce's will be appearing there soon, as well.

    He did not want to ruffle Ben's feathers until the 'best starting five in the NBA' brought home another 'ship. We have seen how Ben plays when he is feeling underappareciated and that would not have won another set of rings.

    I just keep coming back to the fact that the player who was chosen number two overall was not given 5 minutes a game in order to earn more and become a force. How many times has it been said that you can NEVER have too many big men? This is going to haunt the Pistons for years.

    It is interesting to me that he came to the Pistons with such high expectations and was never allowed to live up to them. So many fans came to look upon him as a failure (at age 19). He came to Orlando with his reputation and league experience at a very low level and the huge majority of fans has welcomed him and are excited about his future.

    We can only hope that the Pistons win a lot of games despite this error in judgment. And that they have learned by this experience and will change some things.
  11. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I think the reality is that Flip's system has never made much use of the center position, either as a rebounder, scorer or defender. Historically, the facts bear this out.

    Thus making it wise for Joe not to invest $14 million in Ben, or even $9 million in Darko (I think he will sign for less if he signs before the start of the season).

    While Mohammed may be overpaid given his limited abilities, he does fill the slot, can offensive rebound and possesses the requisite size.

    The toughest transition this year as fans will be seeing the signature Detroit Basketball change into something different. I think the team will no longer hang it's hat on defense, but rather make their mark with consistent offensive play, night in and night out.

    Considering the background of Flip, and that he is the Detroit Coach for the forseeable future, it wouldn't make sense to invest money in personnel that he will not be able to best make use of.
  12. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Ahhhh, Darko would've fit Flip's plan.
    But Flip was into kissing the starting 5s azzzz.
    And not rocking the boat as a newcomer.
  13. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    I think that if Darko does wind up playing the 5, he will play it more like Laimbeer did. And that might have fit in with Flip's offense. I just got
    this off the Magic board and DMC shot a couple of 3s in that game and still not 9 boards with his 17 points:

    Serbia & Montenegro trounced Argentina 83-64 in the opening game of the Philips Singapore Cup on Friday.

    http://www.fiba.com/pages/en/news/brea_news_arti.asp?r_act_news=15154&r_cat=473&page=1

    Here is a write up on the game

    I am not going to make a habit of posting the Serbian games as I see them unless it is OK with the other posters. But the games are getting a little more serious now, on the way to the world 'ships. They beat last Olympic Champs this time, with most of their team intact.

    If you don't want me to post these, just say so. You know me, I'm not pushy :eyebrows: :eyebrows: :eyebrows: :doh: :laugh: !!!
  14. Robert Michael

    Robert Michael First Round Draft Pick

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    I'm happy to hear about Delfino playing well. I have gone on record saying we should trade him, but if he can translate his excellent play in FIBA competition to the NBA then I will very quickly change my tune. :whistle:

    I'm not convinced that the reason we traded Darko was to free $$ for Ben. I think Joe soured on him because of his attitude and wanted to remove a potential distraction. Arroyo kept his head up in public, but I think with Darko and Delfino and him wanting more minutes there was a serious risk of locker room division.

    Ironic that we had issues anyhow, but that was unforeseen at the time.

    If Flip would have found some time for Darko to play things might have gone in a totally different direction. That's life.
  15. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Who knows why we did it, but it was a very bad move.

    Arroyo, Murray, Delfino, Dyess, and Darko would be a sweet bench.


    I'm past blaming anybody.


    How many NBA teams have 3 Olympic starters on their bench?
  16. Hobbs

    Hobbs First Round Draft Pick

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    Darko is better than Mohammed. Mohammed's only plus skill is offensive rebounding. He's average to below average at everything else.

    Darko brings a lot more to the table. Trading him and getting nothing (almost) back was beyond idiotic.
  17. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    It's agreed Darko was souring and JD won't keep any of that. But I still don't know why, in his second year with LB, he didn't get minutes. Did they think he would sit on the end of the bench like an old big? Sheed offered some of his minutes but BBeen wasn't in the mood.
    PF or C does it really make a big diff.?
  18. aurora

    aurora Bench Warmer

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    Lazyberbs, regarding Darko, is it really true that "so many fans came to look upon him as a failure"? Detroit fans? Certainly that is what the national media and even the Pistons organization and lame coaches may have worked themselves up, but I always got the feeling that Pistons fans just wanted to have the opportunity to see the guy play and felt frustrated. I think the fans were much more savvy of the situation than you give them credit for and many fans felt it was way too soon to declare him a failure.

    The second LB year I watched alot of games thinking "Cmon, we're ahead by 20, put Darko in!" I think casual fans like storylines and Darko breaking free from the chains of the Detroit bench in Orlando is a storyline that will really take hold this next season. The jury is still out on Darko, but one thing is for sure, the courtroom is packed for the verdict.

    Back to Topic. I really really hope that we did not trade Darko and Arroyo to give a pile of money to Chauncey. A premeditated decision to let this become Chauncey's team by making him the highest paid Piston by ALOT might actually force me to defect to another team.

    I'll put my cards on the table. The Championship Window is Closed IMO. I'm for the Total Rebuild and it starts with Flip getting fired mid-season, and Chauncey's exit on Flip's heels. Can we trade him to Orlando for Darko and Arroyo?
  19. Caliban

    Caliban First Round Draft Pick

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    Darko engineered the trade. :nod:
  20. Robert Michael

    Robert Michael First Round Draft Pick

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    rebuild by trading Billups for Darko and Arroyo :doh: :doh: :doh:

    How does that help?

    Billups is a far better player than either of those two alone and both of those two put together. He may have an ego and one playoff choke job under his belt, but he is a proven winner, an Allstar, and a Finals MVP.

    Those two are unaccomplished bench players. hello!

    I'm all for dumping Flip, but if we do trade Billups in lieu of paying him --WE MUST DO BETTER than that trade.

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