This is a completely different team with Jose Calderon!

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by blueadams, Feb 7, 2013.

  1. PistonsPoland

    PistonsPoland First Round Draft Pick

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    And that's what I'm looking for. This is a skill and not a lot of players has it. We need our PG to protect the ball, move it and look for a good passes, not the risky ones. That's how you help your team. Knight was a second worse starting PG only above Thomas from Sacramento, and IF he will be our first PG next season, we aren't winning anything.
     
  2. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    One supporting stat is Calderon's average of one free throw a game.
     
  3. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I view it as more discipline than a skill. The one thing that Calderon does do very well on these safe passes is that he moves laterally very quickly at the top of the circle while dribbling to get the passes off. I guess that is to say that he keeps his dribble nicely when exploring.

    I don't dispute that Knight has been an ineffective PG overall, but he has had flashes that were intriguing. His speed, fast break pushing, 3 point shooting, and defense were the main things that showed promise. His vision hasn't been great though and his P&R implementation has been stale. His turnovers on the dribble are also troubling.

    In the open market, Calderon would clearly have more value on a 1-year contract than Knight. I haven't totally given up on BK though... just viewing him with skepticism. But I'm also not convinced that we are going to resign Calderon yet based on what I've seen.
     
  4. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    TaS, Cal has been in the league for years. Why do we need to know what he can do with different combinations of players ? He is what he is. He would need notes on his wrist to remember all the possibilities. He needs a RipH.
    Lee is right, all his backcourt options are below average.
     
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  5. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    TheeTFD makes a good point. Wow, that caught me by surprise. :lol:
     
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  6. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    Can someone break down Jose's assist average with the Raps and what he's averaging with the Pistons?
    I'm too lazy to check but it seems that his dimes have dropped way off after arriving in Detroit.

    If this is the case, it's totally not his fault.
     
  7. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    We are really missing Tayshaun.
     
  8. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    with Raps - 7.4 assists per game / with Pistons - 6.2

    Raps shoot .441 and Pistons .444.
     
  9. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    2 of his games have been vs the #1 defense in the league though. That's a big fraction of his 11 games with us. The only other thing I'd say is that it's a small sample. For example, he's shooting .523 from 3-point range with us vs .393 for his career. I think it's pretty obvious that he hasn't improved that much in the last month on that front.
     
  10. J-Train

    J-Train Team Captain Forum Donor

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    You can blame a lot of it on a few things.

    One, JMax looks like his legs are dead. JMax can play 15 minutes a night, off of the bench, for any team in the league. He can play 18 minutes for most teams. He can play 20 minutes for bad teams. He should never play more than that. He's giving up 4-7 inches every night. He can usually play through that because he's tough as nails and possesses a relentless motor. However, he can't start and play 20+ minutes a game, night after night. It was really just a matter of time before he hit a wall. It's been discussed how important Maxiell has been to our first quarter defense. He hasn't been bringing much lately, and that's part of the reason that we are getting behind big early in games.

    Two, BK has been out for the last three games, all blowouts. He scored 21 to go with 5 assists, and we won, the last game in which he played. BK certainly has his flaws, but he IS our best all around guard, especially defensively. I would argue that he has contributed to our strong first quarter defense as much as Maxiell. Stuckey is strong on the ball, but worthless as a team defender. Jose can play the passing lanes, but really struggles to stop penetration. You're seeing BK's defense being sorely missed on the perimeter.

    Three, Drummond is out. You could argue that, on a per minute basis, no big man in the NBA has had a larger impact on his team than Dre. The Pistons had extra possessions because Dre is the best offensive rebounder in the league. I'm counting 4-5 possessions per game when guys like Kravtsov, Maxiell, and Monroe blew scoring chances in the paint, scoring chances that are dunks with Dre. When Dre was on the floor, opponents stopped driving to the hoop. Opposing bigs didn't get offensive rebounds. Does anybody here seriously think that Horford would have put up a 20/20 game against Dre? Hell no! Dre would have taken his lunch money. Dre would have also given Hibbert and West something to think about.

    It's a combination of things. We can't defend the paint, which means that guys are forced to help against penetration, which in turns leaves us vulnerable to the three point shot. For example, Chuck V is a surprisingly good on the ball defender. He is also the worst team defender that I have ever seen. When a guard is penetrating, Chuck will make a half-assed attempt to help, because he knows that's what he's supposed to do. The opposing guards see this and kick out to Chuck's wide open man. Chuck V then makes another truly half-assed attempt to close out on the shooter, and they stick a three ball in his face. It wasn't a problem with Dre erasing mistakes. Without Dre, and with Maxiell fading, Chuck becomes a huge liability. THAT'S why JJ has replaced him in the rotation. Without Dre and Maxiell, we need guys who can help, recover, and close out on shooters. JJ closes out. Stuckey, while strong on the ball, also suffers from a lack of interest in closing out on shooters, albeit not as badly as Chuck. BK is our best guard when it comes to closing out on shooters. When you combine our recent inability to protect the rim with Jose Calderon's inability to stop penetration, AND add lackadaisical perimeter defenders, then you end up on the wrong end of a blowout. This team was going to struggle against good playoff teams no matter what. Short handed, they are getting destroyed.

    On the plus side, we're getting to see the rookies. Slava looks like he could be a solid 3rd center/ 5th big. He's not a bad option as insurance, and I would think that he'll improve. English is a scrappy guy who can really shoot. I look forward to seeing him progress. The guy I really like is Middleton. He intrigues me. He has a kind of "silky, smoothness" to his game. Good defender. Nice looking jump shot, good out to three. Seems to be a very natural finisher around the rim. I'm curious to see if he can play some guard. Middleton could be a surprise.

    Shabazz. Shabazz. Shabazz.
     
  11. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Roscoe was saying right after the trade that Joe traded Tay/Daye for the Pistons best player. It is true. He's also their best offensive player which I don't think would happen on many other teams. The Pistons are using him like he's a young AI which isn't his strength.
     
  12. The Panda

    The Panda Garbage Post All Star Forum Donor

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    I respectfully disagree. Drummond is our best player and its not even close.

    Calderon is our best guard by a country mile.
     
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  13. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    re: Cal shooting .523 from 3

    No but that would explain why Frank has been using him at SG.
     
  14. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Drummond was out when he said it so he was out of sight/out of mind. You're right though.
     
  15. PistonsPoland

    PistonsPoland First Round Draft Pick

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    Thaaaank You Siiiiir!

    Great post, I agree with everything, and I really like this part about rookies. We got Monroe and Drummond as our 1st and 2nd great bigs, also we got Slava as our good 5th big. We just need to replace Maxiell and CV with better players, and we are set.
    English... I really liked him at the start of the season, right now not so much... He is very aggressive, I would say even too aggressive, sometimes he just put his head down and attack the rim with better options around. He makes too many mistakes defensively. We also hear that he is a great shooter. He showed in a D-League that he can shoot, but not in the NBA ( just 30% for beyond the arc). I think he can develop into nice rotation guy, but maybe he just hit a rookie wall.
    Middleton looks great for me. He just looks more mature than Kim. He doesn't force shots, and always look for his teammates. He looks automatic from midrange. And most important he is long and looks good on defense ( he was able to limit George and Granger ). I hope Middleton will get more minutes soon and show us more of his game. As J-Train said : he intrigues me also.
     
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  16. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

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    It's hard to say what's been going on lately. Drummond being out hurts, for sure. Knight being out really hurt's Calderon's game - running. Frank's rotations continue to baffle.

    I still like Jose. Still want us to resign him. Probably good that we (draft) and he ($$) are struggling down the stretch.
     
  17. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    We are 0-3 since Knight injured his knee.
    Or since Stuckey resumed the starting SG role, depending on how you look at it.
     
  18. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    Middleton reminds me of the Daye that could've been.
     
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  19. J-Train

    J-Train Team Captain Forum Donor

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    His stats don't show it, but he passes the eyeball test. I have no idea if he'll be any good, but he does have some tools.
     
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