This team needs a major culture change, ASAP

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by blueadams, Nov 7, 2012.

  1. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,081
    Likes Received:
    156


    Skip ahead to 1:00. 3rd quarter. Javale McGee has the ball passed to him at about half-court. He begins to charge the lane from there. ALL FIVE PISTONS are in or near the lane. Not one of them even ATTEMPTS to stop Mcgee. Mr. Toughness himself, Jonas Jerebko, is right under the basket - he actually takes a few steps out of the way to watch him dunk. 6-11, 270-something-lb Andre Drummond is right under the basket too - he actually appears to pretend to box out a non-existent Nugget in order to get out of the way. Will Bynum, who should be cutting him off at the perimeter, just slowly walks a few steps out of the way, then turns around, puts his hands up to complain. Kyle Singler, Mr. Dukie, is in a similar positon as Bynum - he actually at least took a step towards McGee before backing away to complain and watch. Kim English is the only innocent man on the court, and even his body language is disgusting.

    I've been a Piston fan for a long time. I've seen a lot of bad teams. I was a season ticket holder during the Don Chaney era. But I've never once seen a team that disgusted me quite as much as this one. I've never seen a play that disgusted me more than last night. And that play is very representative of what our problem has been since Ben Wallace left in '04.

    There is only one way Detroit has ever had a contender. There is only one way Detroit will ever be a contender. By being the toughest, meanest, hardest-working, hungriest S.O.B.'s in the league.

    This team that I'm watching is an absolute discrace. I don't know how Joe-D fell so far away from his Bad Boy roots, but he has.

    The leader and captain of this team, Tayshaun Prince, is perhaps the softest, laziest and least interested player in all the league. His biggest weakness coming out of college over a decade ago was his lack of strength. Has he added even so much as 5lbs of muscle since then!? It's pathetic.

    The fact that Charlie Villanueva and Austin Daye are even allowed on the bench, happy as hell to not be playing, is pathetic.

    The fact that a play like this can occur, and all five players on the court aren't immediately benched afterwards, is pathetic.

    We need a MAJOR culture change, and we need it ASAP, before our talented young players are ruined forever. I don't care how you do it, but you get rid of Tayshaun immediately. You send Charlie V home for the rest of the season and you amnesty him ASAP. You send Daye home for the rest of the season and you let him sign with a lowly European team as a free agent after the season. This season is already over. You put your young players who might have a future out there together, and you let them develop together - C: Drummond, PF: Monroe, SF: Jerebko, SG: Stuckey, PG: Knight, Bench - Singler, English, Middleton, Kravtsov. You get a high draft pick this off-season, you draft a tough, hard-nosed wing who might become a star. You've got a lot of cap space this off-season, you bring in 3 or 4 guys who actually care about winning. Guys who actually have some toughness. Guys who actually have some pride. Guys who actually want to be the best they can be. Guys who give 100%, on and off the court. Guys who take losing personally. Guys who get pissed off about losing. Guys who get pissed off about being scored on. Guys who respect their coaches. Guys who take coaching. Guys who do what their coach asks of them, without hesitation. Guys who don't go behind their coaches back to complain to the GM/Owner. Guys who hustle. Guys who dive after lose balls. Guys who aren't afraid to sacrafice their bodies and take charges (seriously, when was the last time someone even attempted to do that on this team!?). Guys who will set the tone for our young talented players. I don't care how talented these players are. If we can have a team full of players like this - in a league that is THIS soft - we will win at least half our games. We will at least be fun to watch again. And our young core might actually have a chance to develop into a good team.

    Man, Frig!!
     
    Rocastle likes this.
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,603
    Likes Received:
    2,472
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    The culture is a big problem, but I don't see it changing anytime soon.

    So while you're right that things need to change, what have we seen in the last 3 years that would lead anyone to believe that this franchise is going to make bold moves RIGHT NOW to get better?

    All we can do is exercise patience.

    I know you're trying to express a sentiment, and I appreciate you censoring the word, but it's better if we don't do that because it's essentially the same thing. Trust me, finding ways to express yourself without swearing can be a lot of fun.
     
  3. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,081
    Likes Received:
    156
    lo siento
     
  4. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,603
    Likes Received:
    2,472
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    This is not the bad boys. And there isn't the swagger and toughness of the LB/Flip Pistons either.

    The cultural problem is almost exclusively Joe's. He hired Frank. He hired the guy before Frank (how bad is it I can't remember his name). He hired Michael Curry.

    This team only has a few free agents on it, none of which besides Will Bynum actually play. It's basically 11 guys Joe drafted. We might be the only team in the league starting 5 of our own draft picks.

    Our championship team? Our only starting draft pick was Tay, and he was the 5th wheel.

    If you don't draft great talent, and you don't develop great talent (me in fantasy sports) you better be really good at trades and/or free agency.
     
    pass99 likes this.
  5. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,695
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    I think the Pistons need to look at adding someone who can top 17 ppg regularly. Special K was crowing last night about how Stuckey averaged 17 per game in the Pistons 25 wins last year.
     
  6. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6,818
    Likes Received:
    2,950
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    One of the funniest things that I've EVER read on this forum!
    ...oh man! :lol:
     
  7. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2009
    Messages:
    4,805
    Likes Received:
    1,531
    Gender:
    Male
    BA, great post.

    This team reminds me of the pre-KG Celtics. We need an alpha dog like him to come and whip these youngsters into shape. Looking at that McGee All Star Game type dunk, there is only ONE player that got pissed off about that and marched on to the court yelling, and that's Monroe. So, in theory he cares. Again, in theory, if we got rid of the soggy veterans (Prince, CV, Maggs), he *might* develop into that vocal leader. But, I'm not even sure about that considering how lousy his own defense is.
     
  8. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,081
    Likes Received:
    156
    I noticed Monroe getting off the bench after posting. That's good, I guess.
     
  9. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,654
    Likes Received:
    2,992
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    I thought the best play of the game was after the first alley oop to McGee where he dunked all over Drummond. On the very next Piston possession, Bynum went out of his way to set up Drummond for the answer of his own with a nice alley oop in the half court set. You could tell that Bynum was trying to send a message with that.... would have liked him to send the message more than once, but at least it was some show of pride/ competitiveness.
     
  10. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    15,653
    Likes Received:
    3,627
    Location:
    Michigan
    You mean Corey Maggette, don't you?
     
  11. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6,818
    Likes Received:
    2,950
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    I thought he was talking about Shabazz Muhammad.
     
    KGREG and roscoe36 like this.
  12. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,654
    Likes Received:
    2,992
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    There seem to be a lot of good character guys on the team. No real headaches. The guys that you're probably thinking of aren't really distractions, they are just not good leaders. The team seems to have a lot of quiet ones. Even the ones that are confident are reserved in their emotions.

    I think that what you're getting at is the basic truism that it is hard for a younger person to establish themselves as a leader when there are more senior members surrounding them. Since being respected is usually critical to gaining followers, a younger player would need to be an obvious superstar to be in a position where he could be outspoken without rubbing guys the wrong way. If Knight acted the exact same way that LeBron acts, he'd be laughed at.

    Seems to me that athleticism and talent are more the issue. In the meantime, if you want a non talented vocal leader, they probably have to be older and imported (like a Grant Hill type). Until then, the coach will remain the leader.
     
  13. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,695
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    The Pistons do seem to like slow, un-athletic players. It's like they look at the Celtics and say they aren't jumping out of the gym so why can't we do the same without realizing that the Celtics aren't jumping out of the gym because they're in their 15th year playing. The Pistons guys are 22.
     
  14. del

    del Bench Warmer Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2009
    Messages:
    450
    Likes Received:
    235
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Geneva
    Totally agree. We have a glut of (potential) talent up front, but we also need an experienced PG so an alpha-PG would be good. What I would give to have Chauncy back, but it would never happen.

    Is there any other alpha-PGs in the league that we could trade for now?
     
  15. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2010
    Messages:
    3,031
    Likes Received:
    1,260
    I read some rumours about a Stuckey + Knight for Paul trade.
     
  16. webz

    webz All-Star Snub Administrator 2x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    3,483
    Likes Received:
    776
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Not sure if it was captured on TV, but Frank leapt out of his chair so fast to call timeout after the McGee free chili dunk. The look on his face was of absolute disgust and incredulity. He was screaming his head off. I'm surprised he didn't break his fingers by how hard he called that timeout with his hands. So I don't blame Frank, he is definitely not contributing to the softness. I think Drummond and co were just trying to avoid being on a poster after blown coverage.

    That said, last night in the OKC game, Durant had a monster dunk on Jonas Valanciunas which most commentators derided him about, but I love the fact he didn't care and contested the dunk anyway. We need more of that kind of attitude.
     
  17. Kick it to the big man

    Kick it to the big man Second Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2012
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The D
    TP does play slow, like we did in 2004....It is 2012, the NBA game has changed, nobody plays half court ball anymore, if you can't score, defense ain't gone win it alone, we need to get fast and physical, simple ball takes you a long way when you got athletes, when you see somebody cut, drop da rock, and whoever receives the ball, either dunk or lay it up, or get fouled, standing around trying to play slow, will get us popped every game.. Study long, study wrong! I would keep flipping the lineups until I get a streak, try this five, Bynum(1) Daye(2) Cm (3) Monroe(4) and Drummond(5), if he run them as second squad, I bet we would win......let these grown men make they money, and stop acting like he gotta fifth grade team....
     
  18. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    12,306
    Likes Received:
    1,503
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lake Elmo
    JD was a soft member on the hard nosed bad boys teams. He never liked the image potrayed back then.
    That's why we're soft now...and why bill Laimbeer isn't a part of this organization.
    Watching that film makes me wonder how Gores can sign some of those checks.
     
  19. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,729
    Likes Received:
    402
    This sounds reasonable and physically do-able. After all, isn't there someone, on any team (no matter how bad) that can be that guy(s) will put up those points? Usually this means a guard that can get it done, and one forward that is a shooter. They become a moon eclipse: an order of consistency that others can navigate those talented tides that come and go. It becomes a traveler'association. This has been the Piston downfall. JD fell in love with his good luck. All thought he had the midas touch. Unfortunately, JD forgot his hobo heritage. He once sat around the fire circle and understood the hooch that was passed around. Now, it is served on pre-cooked bags of popcorn. All the labels are micro-nutrients that are called out for him.
     
  20. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    15,653
    Likes Received:
    3,627
    Location:
    Michigan
    Bill Laimbeer just got a wnba head coaching job. Kind of went under the radar at pf.com
     

Share This Page