Tigers TIGERS AT THE 33 AND 1/3 MARK REVIEW

Discussion in 'Football, Baseball, and Hockey' started by OLD SKOOL HQ, Jun 4, 2013.

  1. OLD SKOOL HQ

    OLD SKOOL HQ All-Star

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    What are your comments about The tigers so far at the 54 game mark. With a 30-24 record, they are on pace for a 90-72 finish. Is that good enough for the defending AL Champions? Or is good enough to make the playoffs ,good enough . ..not for me...Here's my trois season grades:

    HITTING....B-
    Too many players left on base. Runners unable to score from second. Almost NO stolen bases. If it wasnt for Cabrera's AAA+++ season, the grade would be 'C-'!! My MVP pick Prince is starting to come around after a sorry May and there was no Quentin Berry this year to make for the loss of AJackson...Oh Wait-There is: Avasail Garcia!! JUST PLAY THE KID, Leyland! I swear he reminds me of a right handed Kirk Gibson. I'd trade Castellanos before Garcia.
    A's- Cabrera, Tuisasosopo, Pena, Peralta
    B's- Fielder, Hunter, Infante, Garcia
    C's- Jackson, Dirks
    D's- Martinez, Kelly
    F's- Avila, Santiago

    PITCHING.....B-
    The starters have been as good as advertised. Hopefully they will continue at their 6-7 inning pace and also COMPLETE more games. Porcello is hit and miss but as 5th starters go, he may among the best. The bullpen though?? sans Drew Smyly -a TRAINWRECK! They just look so scared. Benoit has had a good 8th inning season and they show potential when they are NOT leading by 1-2 runs. Its weird how much better they are when we are losing 1-0 than winning 4-2. We need a shocking trade to get a closer by aug 1.

    A's- Sanchez, Scherzer, Benoit, Smyly
    B's- Verlander, Fister
    D's- Everybody else

    MANAGER......C+

    Too much of a familiar song with an old refrain. I dont get Leyland-never have , never will. He IS a player's manager though and runs a great clubhouse. Imagine my grade if he didnt.

    MVP- Cabrera
    Cy Young- Scherzer
    Rookie of the Year- ??


    Overall Grade: B- Too good to be this mediocre
  2. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    THEY . . .probably give us the division. It won't be a slam dunk, looks like Injuns will hang around just to keep it interesting. I think Texans will stop us. No one else til we get to the W.S. where we get blown off the diamond again !
  3. Nemo

    Nemo The Great Predictor Forum Donor

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    30-24 is a C- for this roster.........
    34-20 is a B for this roster.........
    38-16 is an A for this roster.........
  4. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    I think Skoo was betting on futures.
  5. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Not sure how you can give the team that leads all of baseball in runs per game anything but an A for hitting. We're hitting better than the '84 Tigers for crying out loud!

    Pitching: we have the 2nd best team ERA in the AL at 3.72, despite a horrible defense staffed with power hitters at 1st and 3rd, a SS with limited range, and an injured Austin Jackson. Consider this article before you judge our pitching: Detroit Tigers should bench Victor Martinez - MLB - ESPN
    In summary, if you tease our bad D out of the stats, we have historically great pitching happening. Grade = A 4 pitchers in the top 16. We're so stacked that we're jamming Smyly in the bullpen. If Valverde wasn't coming off a disaster at the end of last season, I'd be leaning toward A+.

    Defense... C We're not error prone, just have physical limitations. We're in a virtual tie for best in the AL in error rate, yet when you factor in range, we have statistically the worst defense in the AL by a wide margin.

    Overall: A- Luckily we have the pitching staff with the highest K rate and they don't walk many. Hence, fielding is minimized and most of our defense is in the hands of our pitchers (we've had 160 less defensive chances than Houston for example). We are in 1st place. We lead the AL in run differential. I leave a little room for improvement because this team clearly could be 36-20 right now without asking too much and on a 104+ win pace.

    If we avoid serious injuries, we'll make the playoffs and our pitching rotation will collapse to 4 with Porcello moving to the bullpen. No reason to think that we won't find or buy insurance for our closer role before then as well. This team in the playoffs will likely be favored.
    coynejeremy likes this.
  6. OLD SKOOL HQ

    OLD SKOOL HQ All-Star

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    I go by what I see WATCHING THE GAME not stats. The other night, Pitt got shutout on 10 hits. Adam Dunn has 12 HRS and batting ".155!!!!!!!" BJ Upton is hitting .160. Just because we lead the league in hitting doesnt mean we are hitting our best. Take out Cabrera and see where we'd be,
    Stop always looking at stats. Verlander would tell you himself that he has been lousy. Fister has been so-so. Sanchez is still 6 and 5 and Scherzer still has a 3.60ERA. The bullpen , other than Smyly and Benoit is UNTRUSTABLE.
    Defensively, the only reason we arent WORSE is cuz we lead the league in strikeouts!!!

    I recommend MLB.TV where I actually WATCH the games, my friend. My daughter has a B average this semester and yet her attitude and work ethic were lousy. It may be a 'B" to everyone else, BUT I SEE the effort she puts in...


    Same for our Tigers. The record dont lie.
  7. Nemo

    Nemo The Great Predictor Forum Donor

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    Batters are hitting .187 against Scherzer............EXCELLENT !!!
    Batters are hitting .263 against Verlander..........:cold:

    BTW.......what grade did you give the club at the one-third mark?
  8. OLD SKOOL HQ

    OLD SKOOL HQ All-Star

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    B-....................... also . Tampa bay has a team batting average of .252------same record as Tigers though. Its WHEN you hit that matters.
  9. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    The Tigers offensive stats are misleading. Their record should be WAY better than 31-26.
    OLD SKOOL HQ likes this.
  10. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'm just using stats to back up my argument so that you see where I'm coming from. I'm grading us against other teams, not our god given maximum potential.

    we score the most. how can that be skewed? hitting is a big part of that, trust me.

    I watch every game multiple times in my basement.

    I'm willing to bet you only watch them once.
    KGREG and coynejeremy like this.
  11. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I concur...this team should have the best record in baseball and should be at least 10 games better at 41-16 if not better. There have been to many missed opportunities with great pitching performances aligning with bad offensive play.

    They are getting enough hits, but most of the runs production is being scored in the first 5 innings. There have been a lot games lost in the late innings/extra innings, but I can't recall no more that 2 comeback wins this year.

    Without looking at the stats, three things seem to always rear their ugly head....

    (1).The Tigers score most of their runs in the first five innings and when you need that ninth inning walk off HR etc, it has not been there when needed. (I only recall one). Even Miggy and Fielder have come up short in the late/extra innings.

    (2)Too many runners LOB as Oldschool pointed out. 3 years ago it was Inge and Pudge grounding into DP's to end rallies. Now we have VMart flying out or grounding out with men (Hunter, Miggy or Fielder) in scoring position and Dirks duplicating that effort. As productive as it appears that Fielder and Peralta have been, they are tied for the team lead in strikeouts with 51 and Avila is only a couple K's behind them. The team has a problem hitting change-ups so not sure what the our infamous hitting coach McClendon is doing to remedy this situation.

    I would be interested in what the The rest of the Tigers should bench VMart Insider commentary was.

    (3) Our starters are very good, but the other teams know that our relief pitching is suspect so their batters tend to sit in the batters box, taking pitches (that lead to more strikeouts) but eventually lead to the more late inning runs by the opposition vs our inconsistent relief pitching or the starters who are living on a prayer after serving up 115 pitches.

    I will give the team a C+ in their first 57 games. If they had 5 more wins then probably a B
    OLD SKOOL HQ likes this.
  12. Nemo

    Nemo The Great Predictor Forum Donor

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    Agree fully that key hitting will improve the overall record of a team.
    But with such good stats as Tas points out..........and such a poor record for the level of talent, then the manager must be having a bad season.
    He doesn't seem to be making decisions that help the team to maximize their potential.
  13. Nemo

    Nemo The Great Predictor Forum Donor

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    You are correct. I do grade my classroom students based on standards that are consistent.
    I grade the Tigers based on their potential. I feel that they are slightly below that standard with a 30-24 record.
    OLD SKOOL HQ likes this.
  14. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    STEP #1: Send Avila to Toledo. Dude can't hit. He is killing us.
  15. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Grade B. We have great stats, but we can't seem to put it all together in a consistent basis. When the bats are cracking, the pitching is off. When the pitching is on, the bats are off. When the pitching and the bats are good, the bullpen blows the game. We have 2 weaknesses that continue to rear their ugly heads: Defense and the bullpen, heck at least get a legit closer.
  16. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    The ESPN insider article (which I couldn't read beyond the teaser either) seemed to be implying that we have a historically high gap between the actual performance of our pitchers and the number of runs that the team gives up. The way that they measured that seemed interesting and it looks like there is a full run differential per game between the two when no other team has more than a 0.5 run differential. That's 80 runs per year more than the 2nd worst team in this stat. Compared to the best team, it must be significantly more.

    The gist of their argument seemed to be going down the path to benching VMart and moving one of Cabrera or Fielder to DH (maybe rotate them?). Stick a better fielder out there, who will most likely be outhitting the 2013 Martinez version. No loss on offense and big gain on defense. Could probably every slide Peralta to 3rd and put in a great defensive SS in for cheap.

    The counter point would be that VMart is historically such a good hitter that you continue to ride him and hope that he wakes up and starts hitting over .300 with a good eye.

    As far as the timing of runs produced, that really shouldn't matter as long as they add up. Would you rather score 5 runs in the first inning and none after or get shut out for 8 innings and score 5 in the 9th? At least we are getting at the other team's starting pitching something fierce. That has to bode well for the post season.
  17. Woody

    Woody All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    So today, VMart drives in 3 and hits a dinger.

    Next theory?
  18. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    To me it seems that our offense becomes stagnant after the 6th inning and batters seem to be going through the motions with more strikeouts than in the early innings and we are not winning come from behind games in the late innings. Winning teams with lots of W's get them by being able to steal games in the late innings.

    Today they scored in the single runs in the 6th and 7th innings and got a cushion that eventually got the win for Max and save for Papa Grande.
    8-0 for Max, and he probably still won't be considered the starting pitcher for the All-Star game.....maybe 4 more starts and a possible 12-0 record and you cannot deny him that honor..
  19. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    He must be an Insider and read the article about his underachieving.......
  20. OLD SKOOL HQ

    OLD SKOOL HQ All-Star

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    I read the SI baseball preview and I promise you there will be promising additions available at the AllStar break. A good little snippet was stating how the Braves should consider traing one of their bullpen aces like Kimbrel for some offensive help. Kimbrel for Castellanos wouldnt bother me ONE BIT. I also believe we can steal Stanton for Dirks, 2 minor leaguers and Porcello. Garcia can remain as Hunter's heir-apparent and I know the Peralta suspension is only a matter of time, so release Santiago who SI says is hitting under .150 since last years Allstar break.

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