Time For A Mark Aguirre/Adrian Dantley Move

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by armygirl, Dec 28, 2006.

  1. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    I was sooooo disappointed in last night's game. Which leads to my belief that it is time for a change.

    CB needs to be traded. I firmly believe that he will gallop off to another team after the end of the season. OR he will want Max money and Joe may oblige him OR Joe will do a Ben and not pay therefore, we lose him and get nothing in return.

    I for one, is absolutely sick and tired of his antics, this guy is truly stuck on himself and believe me he is not all that, however, he thinks he's all that and a bag of chips.

    Case in point, last night, he thrives off drama and wanting to be the man, pushing it to the limits. Could he have been jealous of Rip's performance? I just saw a guy out there who really didn't care if the gme was won or lost.

    How many seasoned veterans you know who would foul a guy on a threee point attempt with the game on the line in OT? How often does this happen? Did you see the missed free throw. Come on...CB said it himself he thrives on being the one with the ball in his hand during the last ticks on the clock.

    It's time to shake things up a bit. Trade CB while his value is relatively high. With a couple more of those performances that he had last night, we may not be able to trade him for the second coming of Lance Blanks.
     
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    This is a sidenote, but after the Pistons traded Dantley for Aguirre, they went 30-4 to finish the season. Almost like the run after the Rasheed Wallace trade.
     
  3. webz

    webz All-Star Snub Administrator 2x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    The difference here is that CB is the point guard. Its going to make it incredibly tough to trade him and bring in another point guard to learn the team, the plays, all the players, etc for a run this season.
    And before all you optimists gets all Will Blalock on me - get real.

    CB is just going through a slump at the moment, I don't believe its crisis time here. As far as an S'n'T or him walking at the end of the year, well I may not be totally disappointed, but I don't think our chances will improve by getting rid of him mid-season. The AI ship has sailed.

    If you want to look at other guys who have been under the slump radar, look no further than Prince and Sheed. They deserve some blame as well.

    Rip is our MVP this season and looking like becoming a real go-to guy.
    CB may indeed be a question mark for the future, but I don't think it will help us to make this change mid-season.
     
  4. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Excuse e why I vent some more...............

    Agree/disagree, when you are a PG and your shot has not been falling all night (CONSISTENTLY), if you have an open man, would you keep chucking @#%$@& bricks or would you PASS TO THE OPEN MAN?

    You go to the Hot Hand.....DELFINO.....RIP.......
     
  5. Dumars4Ever

    Dumars4Ever Bench Warmer

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    AG, no argument about the rash of stupid decisions he made last night, particularly in jacking up bad shots when he'd been missing all game long. But, as poorly as he's shot from the floor in the last two games (4-24, 2-14 on 3s), let's also realize that he had 17 assists and only 3 turnovers in those games. He's still one of the best in the league for assists/TO ratio, which is one of the fundamental measures of good PG play.

    I'm also frustrated by his inconsistency and his subpar defense, but he's still a pretty damn good player. Also, trading Dantley for Aguirre was an unusual situation where you could get back a guy who was arguably just as talented as the one you were giving up, who had been the very definition of a malcontent on his previous team (and I mean the usual definition, not the PF.com one...LOL), but had the chance for a genuinely fresh start with his new team, in no small part because of his childhood relationship with the new team's captain. Aguirre on some other team besides Dallas might not have worked that well--Laimbeer apparently told Aguirre that he was willing to give Aguirre a chance only because Isiah said that it could work. But who could the Pistons possibly get back in a deal for Chauncey who would have any chance of making them better?
     
  6. lapeapod

    lapeapod First Round Draft Pick

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    I'm not ready to ride Mr. Big Shot out on a rail just yet. I remember once Larry Bird talking about wanting the ball in crunch time and taking the last shot of the game. Not every player wants to be "the hero or the goat" taking those crucial shots under pressure. Chauncey has ice water running in his veins and if he had made one of his late 3s we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Chauncey had been feeding the hot hand Rip but his gas tank was empty and he wasn't hitting his shots at the very end. It was a thrilling game that the Pistons should have won but then that's why they don't just play the game on paper, you have to perform and put it all on the line. I'm sure if you talked to all the players on both sides they will say this is a game they will remember for the rest of their lives. Chauncey's mistakes were magnified because they came in OT but he's human and not a machine that will hit all his shots and be the hero at the last second and save the bacon. Chauncey has heart and he wrings the most out of his athletic skills and he is the leader of the team and is well respected by his coaches, his teammates, and the opposing players. You can't coach heart or leadership skills and I don't want the Pistons trading away Chauncey this year. I like this team right now, they are getting better and with the young-uns being developed (Blalock, Delfino and Maxiell) they are going to be fun to watch in the playoffs.
     
  7. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    How many times has Chauncey been cold and then started making in the 4th quarter? Answer: many times.

    He really doesn't have too many games where he doesn't hit big shots toward the end when it really matters.

    Remember all the shots that MJ missed? A great shooter will shoot close to 50%. In the clutch, that percentage should go down because the other team is keying on you and playing intense defense. So, if you hit 40% of the big shots, I would say that you are in the upper echelon. CBill does that.
     
  8. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    With AI off the market, I don't know who I'd trade C-Note for that is realistically available.
     
  9. Winless Wonders

    Winless Wonders Starter Forum Donor

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    Joe D. had little room to wheel and deal before and less now that AI has been traded.

    If I was Joe D I gamble and trade for a young PG.
    Looking out there the guy I would target would be Mo Williams of the Bucks. He is young and still improving so he has some upside. His game would complement RIP. He is a slasher and grabs a lot of boards and shoots a pretty good % from the floor. I think you could talk the Bucks into giving us a 1st round draft pick and Mo Williams in exchange for CB.


    That would give us 3 ist round picks in the draft. We could then package those picks to move up in the draft and get another Center.

    Anyone like this scenario???:cheerleader:
     
  10. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    I have no problem with CB taking the big shot, but as a decent PG in this league, you have to know when to pass and when to pull up.

    If you look at the statistics, the law of average states that if you are cold shooting the entire game including OT, the odds are 1000 to 1 suddenly you heat up and make a couple, it just doesn't work that way. Cold shooting is cold shooting no matter how you spell it.

    Secondly, jacking up thress is one thing, decision making is another, no one has yet addressed the stupid foul on Starbury's three point attempt.

    I can name a few point guards who more than likely would have the common sense and the baskeball IQ not to make this mistake starting with a few rookies.

    Another thing, you are hearing it from me right now, december 28, 2006, when we make it too the playoffs, ECF, Conf Finals, whatever, CB will be the game killer. Mark my words.
     
  11. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    I will take Deron Williams, little Earl Boykins, Chris Paul, hell I would like to have a smart , bona fide point, driblbe, penetrate, kick out, score in the paint PG.
     
  12. Dumars4Ever

    Dumars4Ever Bench Warmer

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    This is probably the biggest factor, that he has to produce in the playoffs. He struggled badly against Cleveland and Miami last year, which was one of the main reasons the Pistons didn't get back to the Finals.

    Still, as bad as the foul on Steph's 3 attempt was, let's not get too worked up about one mistake in a regular season game. Sheed leaving Horry open in Game 5 might very well have cost the Pistons another 'ship, but trading him in the off-season just because of that wouldn't have helped their cause either.
     
  13. Winless Wonders

    Winless Wonders Starter Forum Donor

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    I would love Chris Paul or Deron Williams but I highly doubt those teams would trade those guys for CB.
     
  14. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Interesting. I think the Bucks would have to throw someone else in to make the numbers balance - Skinner? Gadzuric? - and with a two for one it might be hard to also get the pick. But, Williams is a strong upcoming player.

    Problem for me with all of this is that I think this team has a chance to compete for a championship this year. I think they can come out of the East and can match up well with anyone coming out of the West. And if you believe that, no way you can trade Billups.

    The opportunity to make it all the way to so rare that I don't see how you can take a chance against losing it. If someone goes down with a season ending injury or for some reason the team otherwise falls apart, this could be a good deal for the future. Without that happening though I don't think you can look past the future that could happen in June.
     
  15. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Here is the thing about Chauncey fouling Marbury.

    Marbury shoots .314 from 3-point land.
    Marbury shoots .723 from the free throw line.

    The odds of Marbury making all 3 free throws are
    .723 X .723 X .723 = .378

    .378 is greater than .314, but not significantly. When you consider that Chauncey would have pressured the shot cleanly most of the time, and gotten away with a little contact some of the time, I think that it was the right play to challenge. He was probably decreasing the odds that Steph would actually make the jumper to < 15% by getting up in his grill.
     
  16. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    The Pistons were 33-15 with Dantley. That trade was a wash, at best.
     
  17. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Pathetic. Chauncey wasn't jealous of Rip. He had a bad game, it happens. How in the world is he full of himself? He's confident, not cocky. The one time he was cocky we lost and he learned from it. The guy doesn't care about his contract right now and I can see that, he wants to win. We won't get equal value for Chauncey in a trade.
     
  18. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    The reason why the Pistons went on a run prior to the trade was that Chuck D just started taking minutes from Dantley for Rodman. Dantley started sulking and refused to pass the ball if he got it during a game.

    They traded for Aguirre and put him in his place as a 5th/6th starter from the beginning which allowed Rodman to get a lot more court time and put the ball back into Vinnie, Joe and Isiah's hands.

    Talent for talent, Dantley was a better scorer. But Aguirre wanted to win more than he wanted to "get his" and that was the benefit of the trade.

    I don't think the Pistons would have gone 3-11 if the season was 14 games longer. That was the season they set the franchise mark for wins.
     
  19. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Another thing. You keep on complaining about him doing bad yesterday, but how many times has Chauncey bailed this team out? If this becomes consistant than yeah maybe you're right, but right now you seem foolish. Everybody goes through their ups and downs. When a person is doing bad sports or not sports you don't destroy the guy, but you try to let the guy get through his or her problems maybe you even help out a bit. If it becomes consistant than you ride the guy. Besides who would we get for Chauncey? Not Paul, not Nash, Kidd is old. There is no way we get equal value for Chauncey.
     
  20. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Himat, the problem with Chauncey that I think many people have is that he makes the same bonehead decisions year after year. When Carlisle was here, the philosophy was to take the air out of the ball and win it on the last couple possessions.

    That's where the moniker Mr. BS comes from.

    But LB tried to break Chauncey of that, to get him to look for teammates and to stop holding the ball so long.

    I can handle the bad defense (which is a constant). I can handle the missed FTs. I can handle the silly foul for 3 shots.

    I can't stand lofting up 3 pointers when 2 points will win. I can't stand shooting early in the clock. And I can't stand him neglecting to command the offense and allowing his teammates to spot up on the perimeter instead of running the set offense.

    Those are all correctable mental errors, not the product of a slump. We don't notice when the shots fall, but as seen last playoffs, these big shots don't fall when the games are really important. You have to grind it out, recognize score and time, exploit weaknesses.

    In a few months we will be talking about CB as a max contract player. He was the one who said he thought last season that he should be the MVP. To truly be an elite player, you have to bear the burden of winning and losing. That is why is he getting so much scrutiny. Because he's usually very good, but only flirts with being great.
     

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