Time For A Mark Aguirre/Adrian Dantley Move

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by armygirl, Dec 28, 2006.

  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Can't easily front load.

    We would have to make the first year massive to get to the overall # he will be looking for if subsequent years will get progressively lower paying.

    I'm not trying to be a party pooper, but many of us are adults. Let's be serious about this "will sign for less money" stuff. It rarely happens. And is less likely when the player is in a position of power during the negotiations.
     
  2. Winless Wonders

    Winless Wonders Starter Forum Donor

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    Everybody keeps leaving out Mo Williams. This dude is having a great year and is player of the week this week.
     
  3. Winless Wonders

    Winless Wonders Starter Forum Donor

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    Money is a big deal to these guy's. It is almost as important as the stats these days.
     
  4. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    My vote is "pay him whatever it takes."

    I wouldn't say that about many players. I thought it would have been foolish to pay Ben what he was asking.

    CB, Rip, and Tay are the core.
     
  5. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Signing for less or not sticking-up the Org. or amicable signing or more years or "no trade" might be ways of saying "will sign for less". Getting the deal done on time. Asking the player/agent what they need. The player telling the agent to backoff.
     
  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    TFD, all of that is great but CB signing is going to be our most significant move of the offseason.

    It is irrelevant if he signs on the first day or the 20th. What matters is for how much total, then the number of years, then the distribution over those years.

    But it is all keyed by the gross salary amount.
     
  7. Winless Wonders

    Winless Wonders Starter Forum Donor

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    Players now days are like "It's time to get mine"!! So I don't see any player signing for less especially if they have been underpaid for so long like CB. I don't know about handing him a blank check.

    Seeing CB at age 35 chucking up 3's and running out of gas at half time of games making 19.5 mill a season gives me nightmares.
     
  8. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Yeah, my position on this is already clear. JD and Bill D. are ready to bleed from the wallet.
    WW don't fuss if we are still winning at a .667 clip.
    With football, all you would hear is guys saying, "Get the deal done on time". They don't like being strung along. That doesn't mean they'll take less as much as they want to start spending.
     
  9. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    My dear brother TFD. I don't care what it costs Bill D. I'm worried about it being an albatross contract in two years. We've thrived by not paying the big bucks. Any deviation from that philosophy is suspect until proven otherwise.
     
  10. Winless Wonders

    Winless Wonders Starter Forum Donor

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    I second that. Not my dime so I really don't care other than the price of a ticket might go up. My concern is that the production will fall off and we will be stuck with a guy making 19mill a year that handycaps the future and causes us to lose out on free agents and resigning our young guys like J-Max and Amir if they prove to be outstanding NBA pros. I rather pay a guy in his mid 20's big money than a guy entering his early 30's.
     
  11. webz

    webz All-Star Snub Administrator 2x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Yep, the max contract scares me. Its just bad timing. Ben was, and CB will be just the wrong side of their prime and looking for the big pay day (back pay included as roscoe mentioned).
    Best case scenario is that we sign Chauncey to that big deal but ideally for no more than 4 years tops!
    I don't know if there has been any precedent set in the past but has there ever been anyone sign for or close to a max deal for only 3 years? Thats what I would like to see, but I know it ain't gonna happen. Perhaps a team option on the 4th and 5th??...
     
  12. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    In hindsight, I am happy we did not match Ben's contract. I am far more intrigued and excited about this team when it has some flexibility to make moves and incoming draft picks to go with a young bench.
     
  13. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    So WW you like what Philly just went through with AI.
    ---
    That's right Roscoe, JD and BillD has put together the most successful org. in the NBA, going the show me first route. Now it's time to pay up. CB did his job, is he not a keeper, as was Bbeen? But to boak at not keeping talent because it is too expensive with issues of age or whatever isn't frugle, it's loser. Other posters have said this before, if you want to be competetive you need to spend. For you to backtrack and say, well now we have to be money conscience isn't truthful or honest. So which is it, you want an Org. that keeps talent or an Org. with no stability? Spare me the headaches of minor issues like "he doesn't run the fast break", "chucks too many 3s". You try to placate everyone here by talking on both sides of the issue when it's time to get on one side. On these issues you are not being a good leader.
     
  14. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    - Four years
    - Starts at $12.5 million
    - 5% raises each year
    - $54 million

    You heard it here first. That puts CB below Nash and Kidd, but above all other PGs.
     
  15. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I'm here learning from everyone's ideas and how things go down. I'd *like* to think I am a little smarter than I was 4 months ago. That I am not married to a singular train of thought or obsessed with a player or two, but trying to find a more wholistic truth about how the business of basketball should be done.

    Now you are talking in absolute terms. Is CB the only player of talent on this team? I'll admit he has substantial talent, just as Ben had substantial heart and athleticism. Stability comes from coaching and the front office. Players in the free agency era are relatively fluid. While I like the idea of guaranteed contracts, I don't like the idea of being on the wrong end of one.

    That's part of evaluating a player. Everyone wanted the trey bomb until it arrived. Now there is a chorus of "Delfino is not a spot up shooter" and "Rip should run his curls" and "Sheed needs to get into the post" and "CB takes 3s without running the offense". Are those criticism of a style of play invalid?

    That is the best compliment I have received in ages.

    I'll be honest in that I "wing" being a forum leader when it comes to discussion. Just the same, I prefer to enable a lengthy discussion that covers more than one angle than preaching one absolute truth. That would be an abuse of the position. You will never catch me pushing an idea I know to be absolutely false.

    I don't have all the answers. But if we all chip in some information and points of view, we just might find some good ones.

    Too wishy-washy? Perhaps. Maybe I am just a wishy-washy kinda guy.
     
  16. Winless Wonders

    Winless Wonders Starter Forum Donor

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    Philly is retarded. Their GM is worse than Zeke in my opinion. Trading for a washed up Webber was their mistake. They should have used that 20 mill a year to sign some 2 good free agents to help AI. That's what I want to avoid. I want our Piston team to ba able to go out and get players if needed and not be handycapped with a CWebb/ Starbury size contract for a guy past his prime sucking up the cap space. Actually if we sign Chaunacey to a max deal we might just end up being Philly 3 years from now. The truth is this current Pistons group has one more year to make a push before we need a major tweak if that tweak is not already needed.

    The Pistons did not paid a max contract to Alan Houston,Grant Hill, Stackhouse or Ben Wallace. So what makes Chauncey Billiups so deserving of one? That is my question. I say Rip is more deserving in my opinion. Rip is the one that puts numbers up night in and night out. Atleast Rip has an excuse for disappearing in the playoffs. Teams put the wood to Rip and take away is curl and screen plays. What is Chauncey's excuse for running out of gas and not being able to produce when it matters?

    I am not saying Chauncey is a bum. CB is a very very good player a top 5 point guard in the league. I just don't think he is worth paying out 80 to 95 mill over 5 or 6 years at this stage of career and at his age. That's the range we would be talking folks. I would welcome CB back with open arms if we sign him to a deal starting out at 9 mill like Sheed's. Are you telling me that Chauncey is going to be putting up 18 pts and 8 assists and play in 75 to 80 games a year when he is 34 or 35? Are you telling me is fatigue and conditioning problems will not get worse with age? :cold:
     
  17. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Sorry DBA, that contract would be good for about one year. To say you are out of touch with reality when there is no reality reguarding money in the NBA is not realistic.
    ----
    Micro, wishy-washy, anal retentive was running through my head.
    Like it or not you are our forum leader. It's your forum, need I remind you? Allowing free thought is good but you can't let people go down dark alleys of fandom without saying, "that's as far as you should go."
    There's more than one way to successfully run an Org. And sence being a fan is about wreckless fun where do any of us get off about being right and proper? Because correctness keeps us from meandering lucidly all over the place. Where correctness may be a majority opinion. You can't lead if you don't have a direction. And if you won't lead won't there be a void?
     
  18. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    Thee, imagine you are on a cruise ship. It doesn't matter if you hit the buffet or the disco lounge...the ship still goes on the course set by its captain.
     
  19. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I was a lot of fun when I was younger. :gun1:

    I was just crunching our 2006 expense and income numbers. Please do not remind me. :pound:

    So you are arguing for free thought, but just not too free? Like maybe discounted thought? 20% off all ideas! Free thought for a limited time!

    I will defend your right to be improper and incorrect (in regards to basketball) with all of my heart and soul.

    That's the beauty of it TFD. We have hundreds of members to fill the void. We're a diverse community, not a blog driven by a single poster.

    I want you to lead. I want Winless to lead. I want dba to lead. I want bball jay to lead. I want webz to lead. I want mercury to lead etc. etc. I'm just here to point out some leaders when things get quiet. Dish out some kick-in-the-pants action.

    We're not trying to get anywhere fast my man. It's the scenic route. Stop and smell some roses!
     
  20. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Dale is 37, he seems to still get after it. Let's see how CB ages.
     

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