Time for the Pistons to rebuild no matter what's the outcome of this season!

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Jumpman313G, Dec 6, 2008.

  1. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Re: Time for the Pistons to rebuild no matter what's the outcome of this season!*

    How is saying that he was a year late firing Flip out of context? And I didn't say that he didn't use any strategy, I said he wasn't as strategic and savy as he's been with player acquisition. lol. I don't think any of this is mind blowing news.

    Wow, you're still sticking behind this guy. Unbelievable. Hopefully, Joe doesn't think like you. If he hasn't learned his lesson (hiring someone with no head coaching experience to attempt to win a championship), we could be looking at George Blaha behind the podium next. lol. BTW, just to point out another hole in your arguement.... Doc Rivers was once fired and later led a team to a championship. Riley, Jackson, Pop and Rudy T. have all loss in the playoffs before and later got the job done. There is a long list of coaches who have knocked on the door of becoming NBA champion. Joe chose to ignore their playoff experience and hire his friend. I gave you my listing of coaches before, listed their accomplishments and you chose not to reply directly to that thread. There is no need to build the arguement again. I'm just going to cross my fingers and hope that Joe figures out he needs to get some strong established talent behind the bench unless he is completely committed to rebuilding.
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Re: Time for the Pistons to rebuild no matter what's the outcome of this season!*

    Until he accumulates more points, I don't think it's totally unreasonable.

    But they have more data. See with Curry, there is no selectivity. He's been pretty bad. Other guys, have both.

    I think your argument is that Curry shouldn't be punished for the length of his resume, which I agree puts him at a disadvantage, but an honest one.

    I think Joe went cheap personally.

    Yeah, but you can't change now and expect to win a title. Coaches need time to get their system in, they need time to work with their talent.

    This is it. We have to roll with it. Like Curry sitting on the sidelines, strap on your seatbelt!
  3. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Re: Time for the Pistons to rebuild no matter what's the outcome of this season!*

    Hmmm...is that a true statement? In the last twenty years, I can only think of Riley. But, in all fairness I think Stan Van Gundy took over his existing system. So when Riley took it back over there probably wasn't that big of an adjustment to be made with the players. I dunno, brother. I think the season is still early enough where we could make adjustments on the fly since there is still reminants of the old system in place that worked. But hey, I could be wrong. I guess it depends on the replacement and how close his methods are to our existing system.
  4. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    Re: Time for the Pistons to rebuild no matter what's the outcome of this season!*

    So savvy would have been Firing Flip earlier so he could get somebody like Rick Adelman. Am I getting this correct?

    I'm not sure how that's so much swifter than putting your intended replacement on the bench next to Flip and giving him a "free" year to get his bearings.

    Seems to me that defining expertise and savvy is eye of the beholder territory. That's not mind blowing news either.

    You think that "hopefully" Joe has already decided not to stick behind this guy after 19 games?

    What kind of good character factory are you running over there?

    I didn't realize there were "20 games into it" lessons that Joe should have already learned.
    And every year there were 20 some odd other guys that had also been fired before that didn't win squat. I still fail to see how that is a prerequisite of certain championship when in the end the same qualification goes hand in hand with not getting one 20 some odd other times

    Neither do I. I am simply pointing out how, for the purposes of this thread, you are affording Curry less tether for his negative aspects than you would tend to tolerate for another coach you may hold in higher esteem.
  5. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Re: Time for the Pistons to rebuild no matter what's the outcome of this season!*

    If you think sitting next to Flip for a year usurps playoff Finals experience, what else needs to be said?

    For some, the gap is much larger than others apparently.


    It's how you lose that matters. Most jobs have a 30 day probational period to see if you are worth investing into. If you show complete incompetency in a short time, you are handed your walking papers. Curry's latest loss and his last interview come close in my opinion. For me it all comes down to expectations. If Joe is still attempting to "Win Now", I think he has to make a quick move. If his thought is to rebuild and this season is a wash as it pertains to championship aspirations, then watching him fuddle through how to coach makes sense. I don't know how many different ways to say it.

    Obviously.

    I get it, I get it. Playoff experience means nothing to you. To me that just means you would have made the same mistake Joe made. But hey, these are all just opinions, right? Besides, how do we even score who's right? Your approach has no accountability. If Curry stinks it up the entire year, you'll just say he was showing the weaknesses in the team. If Curry does well you'll say I told you so. One of the things I like about Joe is that he doesn't make excuses and he doesn't appear to accept them either.


    If there was a such thing as an entry level position for a professional coach, I think it would be a young team with a plan for being championship ready that spans multiple years.

    Moreover, I think a prerequisite for coaching a team you think has a shot at winning the championship should be playoff experience and at a bare minimum regular season experience. No coach in the history of the game has won in his first year of coaching. What in the world would make you think that Michael Curry is the anomaly? If we are not talking about winning a championship this year or the next, then this debate has wasted quite a bit of server space. lol.
  6. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Re: Time for the Pistons to rebuild no matter what's the outcome of this season!*

    Please everyone, I will say it in this thread, thencut and paste in other threads, just be patient, the pistons will get there, it has only been 20 games into the season.

    We will develop an identity, get our game down, learn the system and maybe settle in with anothr new face, (yes, I think we will trade another piece of our team before all is said and done). I think that we will be ok in the end.

    If we suck after 30 more games, I will be the first to eat my words
  7. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    Re: Time for the Pistons to rebuild no matter what's the outcome of this season!*

    I got this weird deja vu after reading this post.
  8. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    Re: Time for the Pistons to rebuild no matter what's the outcome of this season!*

    I think most if not all parallel dimensions have converged onto this one.:clone:
  9. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    Re: Time for the Pistons to rebuild no matter what's the outcome of this season!*

    Is there a glitch in the matrix?
  10. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    Re: Time for the Pistons to rebuild no matter what's the outcome of this season!*

    There are always reasons, and generally, very good ones. There are no coaches (to include most good GMs) that cast the first stone.


    This really hits home. Nicely said.
  11. max

    max All-Star

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    Re: Time for the Pistons to rebuild no matter what's the outcome of this season!*

    I have heard 30 games as a good benchmark before, I think it was Chuck Daly.
  12. DirtyMoney

    DirtyMoney First Round Draft Pick

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  13. RipBillupsRJC

    RipBillupsRJC Second Round Draft Pick

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    Re: Time for the Pistons to rebuild no matter what's the outcome of this season!*

    There's no way we resign Iverson after this year. Joe is an idiot if he does. We're going to have a crapload of capspace next year, so we will be rebuilding. The thing that worries me about the direction of this time is a sense that they can compete in the future without a 1-5 overall pick. We need a franchise player that sticks with the Pistons through his entire career. Please, God, let them suck this year. Terribly. Lottttttttery.
  14. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    Re: Time for the Pistons to rebuild no matter what's the outcome of this season!*

    Who said that?
    My contention has always been that there are negative aspects to the alternative Coaches, and positive aspects to Curry that you simply wish to ignore.
    That is all. I haven't jumped all over the place except to follow you around while you jockey to show some sort of definitive failure that has already transpired.

    No it does not. It's laughable when the NBA dynamic gets compared to peoples everyday jobs. I'm certain that most folks want a position in which failure 30% of the time is not only acceptable, but has one in consideration for executive/employee of the year.




    That's funny but hardly illuminating.
    Certainly you understood that I was hoping you would enlighten me with 20 games into it lessons that translated directly to winning or losing a championship in June, right?
    Let's hear them, or it, or whatever, as long as you stick to your own predefined context
    and show how a 11-9 performance in the first 20 games is a surefire indicator of not winning a championship. Consequently, there has got to be some statistical supporting evidence that points to, say, 17-3 being an indicator of certain parading up and down the streets.



    And yours is going out on a limb? lol, Come on now.
    Surely you realize that statistically claiming your team isn't going to win the championship is just about the safest bet there is.

    As far as my approach goes, as I said at the beginning of this post, I've had one contention and that is it. I don't think the bad is as bad and the good is as good as you are making it out to be for Curry or anyone that could have conceivably been coaching this team right now.
    You want to talk about championships, lets talk about championships. As far as I know, the 2009 NBA championship hasn't been won yet. You're trying to establish that we have already definitely lost, based on an 11-9 record 20 games in. That, and the fact that we don't have a guy like Stan VanGundy coaching the squad.

    I'm thinking of records over the first 20 games, I'm thinking of some of these possible replacements, and I still don't see where anything has already been made to be absolute. :confused:

    If you have, please share the scientific method with me so I can move to Vegas and use those powers for good. :)




    And see, originally, that's where you had me thinking you were onto something. Initially I thought you viewed the Curry signing as an automatic white flag from Joe. I was jiving with that, because it made perfect sense to me that if Joe thought the core was washed up he would first hire a young coach and a good teacher to give them experience and teach the youngsters, in lieu of leading an experienced coach into a no win situation as you blew the whole thing up and started from scratch.
    That made perfect sense to me.

    But then you decided to maintain the position that Joe hired Curry to win the championship, and there was no logic or merit in that decision. I disagree. I can see why Joe would hire Michael Curry in both scenarios. And I don't think either one makes him stupid, crazy, insane, or whatever. Especially after 20 games.
  15. RipBillupsRJC

    RipBillupsRJC Second Round Draft Pick

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    Re: Time for the Pistons to rebuild no matter what's the outcome of this season!*

    Curry's a good teacher?
  16. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    Re: Time for the Pistons to rebuild no matter what's the outcome of this season!*

    He mentored Tayshaun.

    Hopefully his knowledge isn't being questioned. It's his ability that's suspect.
  17. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Re: Time for the Pistons to rebuild no matter what's the outcome of this season!*

    Wow, an independent-of-the-party-line piece by McCosky. A pretty depressing one too.
  18. The Palace Artest

    The Palace Artest First Round Draft Pick

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    Re: Time for the Pistons to rebuild no matter what's the outcome of this season!*

    30 more games? really?

    after 30 more games, we may be hanging on the 7th or 8th seed by a string. Sure, I GET the argument about being patient, but there is another side: you just have to know when a guy just doesn't have it.

    And why is the team regressing? aren't you supposed to get better with more time together? something ain't right.

    The very least Curry could have amounted to was a Mike Singletary-like figure, with little concept of basketball tactics. He doesn't even seem to be running a tight ship, as far as accountability is concerned. And according to that McCosky article, Curry appears to be as stubborn as a mule. This is why yes-men, especially one who was more or less just handed the position, never work.

    The yes-man is useful only for saving a pretty penny.
  19. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Re: Time for the Pistons to rebuild no matter what's the outcome of this season!*

    I sort of felt like MC is so in tune with JD philosophically that Joe can essentially suggest things and they'll happen on the court.

    Is it possible that some of these bad ideas that are being implemented are Joe's? We know how much he likes guards.
  20. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Re: Time for the Pistons to rebuild no matter what's the outcome of this season!*

    The only thing that is obvious to me in this thread, is that you can debate anything. lol.

    Is it now? Please quote where I say Curry has no positive aspects. You won't find it. This is a matter of qualifications and you've yet to build an argument that shows he is more qualified than any other coach that was available given our situation. You're only argument has been no track record could mean good track record. Like much of anything, I think when hiring someone for a high level position. experience should be one of the driving factors. I understand that you don't rank it that high. Cool. I feel his lack of experience should have eliminated him from consideration immediately.
    I respectfully disagree and I think there are alot of valid comparisons as it pertains to performance. BTW, where does 30% come from? I'd love to see that mathematical calculation. lol.
    Interesting debate tactic. You attempt to convert my opinions to "absolute" declarations in order to build your argument. We know that absolutely anything is possible, however this is more about what gives you the highest probability for success. I am of the opinion that seeing that a first year coach has never won a championship and I can't remember the last time a coach with less than 5 years of experience has won the big one, it is not probable to believe that your approach is one that is very likely to succeed.

    Again, I'm interested in the best chance of winning. This "absolute" talk is pretty frivolous conversation. We may as well be talking about how Oklahoma City can still win it all. Obviously, I am not in the minority with my thoughts. How many coaching changes have we seen so far this season? Like 4 or 5, I think. So, it looks like decisions can be made 20 games in...

    I think that if Joe hired Michael Curry thinking he would win a championship this season, then it is a stupid decision. I believe this group still had a championship run in them. That opportunity is most likely wasted with the Curry hiring. And for the record, it appears that my beloved Pistons are under performing, developing poor habits and looking more disjointed than I've seen since before Rick Carlisle was hired. We have problems out scoring our opponents. Our defense is horrendous and its not just AI. We do not have composure down the stretch. Too often timeouts occur after the damage has already been done. Players are looking confused. Player body language does not reflect that of a winning team . Players are not playing with a sense of urgency. Effort is not consistent. Curry has yet to take accountability for any of these deficiencies. The shock factor of the Pistons playing a different style of basketball has appeared to have worn off and now the most feable of teams are exploiting our poor execution and effort.

    That's what I see in the first 20 games.

    ..and I'm not impressed.

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