To All the Stuckey Haters

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by BG*CV*STUCK, Nov 29, 2009.

  1. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,566
    Likes Received:
    2,895
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    With a lot of minutes under their belts now, another look at Stuckey vs. Bynum per 36 minutes:

    Stat:Stuck/Bynum
    Pts: 18.6/ 16.6
    Reb: 4.2/ 3.9
    Ast: 4.4/ 5.9
    Stl: 1.3/ 1.1
    Blk: 0.1/ 0.2
    A/T: 1.6/ 1.9
    PF: 2.8/ 3.3
    eFG: .414/ .440
    TS%: .488/ .520

    This is a very close comparison. Stuck is involved in 27.4 points per 36 minutes and Bynum is involved in 28.4 (assuming all their assists were to 2-point shooters). Bynum is more efficient, but more selective, and passes more often. Stuckey is a very strong rebounder for a guard, so it's really surprising that WB hangs in there with him. Steals, blocks, and turnovers are very similar.

    It's a little too bad that they have the exact same style. The benefit is that we are always putting pressure on the D, but we need some shooters to really take advantage of these guys.
  2. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    3,396
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    Amish Hood
    Tay, good stuff as always... just a simple comment.... More minutes for Bynum should equal diminishing returns.
  3. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,438
    Likes Received:
    2,296
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    Stuckey really regressed tonight. He should be embarrassed to be the team's leading scorer the way he did it.

    Every game is a fast start, adjustments, and then he's a liability. Whatever the opposite of clutch is, that's him.

    Good players get better as the game goes on, he gets worse.

    Is this gonna be a Darko thing where in year 4 we are still talking about how he is learning the position?
  4. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    12,635
    Likes Received:
    1,691
    Location:
    Rancho Cucamonga, CA
    ...and that my friends is why we are losing games in the second half...
  5. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    3,396
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    Amish Hood
    Really?
  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,438
    Likes Received:
    2,296
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    Yup. I'm not a hater or a koolaid drinker. Just trying to call it as I see it.

    Maybe my "tone" is tough, but I think my observations are reasonable.
  7. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,695
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    I don't trip too much over stats, but to shoot 11-24, 7-24 and 11-26 with only 4 3's taken in total is really something.
  8. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    12,635
    Likes Received:
    1,691
    Location:
    Rancho Cucamonga, CA


    I know all-stars, Kobe, Melo, Wade and Lebron are all probably up above 25 shots per game and the next group of guys including Ellis, Ariza and Roy are probably around 20, but I wonder where does Stuckey rank in the league in the number shots taken per game?

    Can you give those stats TaS?
  9. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2005
    Messages:
    1,375
    Likes Received:
    7
    Teams realize that Stuckey is the only guy we're putting on the floor that can put points on the board right now, so they just trap him on those P&R's. We played the "blend in and be unselfish" Stuckey in the 4th and look what happened. Other guys touch the ball and don't know what to do with it....

    Bynum touches the ball and it stays there for 20 seconds, and no one else gets near it until the clock is winding all the way down. That wasn't so bad when he was tearing it up, but now that he's come back to earth, the team dies in his hands. Charlie V touches it and will shoot into 10 opponent hands before giving it up.

    Who else is going to do anything offensively?

    And I've been saying it for a while, he looks physically hurt as games wear on. Always limping around and wincing. 40 minutes per game is obviously just too much for him to hold up with the amount of punishment that he takes attacking the rim.
  10. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2005
    Messages:
    1,375
    Likes Received:
    7
    17.6 FGA per game - 12th in the league.

    37.6mpg - 14th in the league.

    19.8ppg - Tied for 19th in scoring (With Amare)

    5.0 FTM per game - 17th in the league.

    On a team that starts Chucky Atkins, a 2nd round rookie, Maxiell, and Ben Wallace.... Those are pretty good numbers.
  11. MJO77

    MJO77 First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    0
    So why isn't Kuester taking advantage of BG and Rip being injured and throw Bynum into the starting lineup at PG instead of Atkins?
  12. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,853
    Likes Received:
    786
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    I've said it before, I'll say it again, I think that he has a conditioning issue. I'm not sure if he understands how to train at an NBA level, I'm not saying he's lazy, I'm not saying he didn't work out all summer. I believe that whoever was responsible for developing his stamina and conditioning failed him miserably.

    Miami just flew Tim Grover in from Chicago to get Wade in shape because Wade is displaying the same tendencies as Stuckey.

    For Stuckey it's not an issue of taking some sort of pounding in the paint, the issue is that he's a BIG dude that carries a lot of body mass (not fat) and weight and it that is what's wearing him down; not to mention the defensive halftime adjustments by the other team.
  13. monrams99

    monrams99 First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2006
    Messages:
    171
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Phillipines
    I agree another lost against the thunders ouch!!! again you can score 30ppg but if your team is loosing it doesnt make sense at all!!
    I really wanna throm my TV ouside my window apartment!
  14. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,438
    Likes Received:
    2,296
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    But it isn't. This is the Mitch Richmond in Sacramento deal. One guy puts up big numbers and everyone else sucks. When Walt "The Wizard" Williams (poor man's Tayshaun Prince) is your Pippen, you're going to score 20+ PPG and get plenty of FT and FG attempts.
  15. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,438
    Likes Received:
    2,296
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    Stuck had some bad turns and fouls in the second half. He didn't seem to be in the game mentally at all.

    And I understand that teams don't scout or plan for Stuckey in the first half (note sarcasm ;) ) and make an adjustment, but why can't he do what other people do when they get trapped?

    I can understand if his teammates are missing shots, but he isn't getting them the ball when he draws the double team.

    I don't necessarily disagree with this. But I'm not sure their performance is why Stuckey is struggling.

    Last night, 3/5s of the starting lineup had 10 pts. The other night, Ben and Max had 7 pts combined. I know these guys aren't offensively gifted, but no one is getting anyone the ball where they can score. Look at how quickly Wilcox looked useful, when people got him the ball where he can make a move. There are no plays run for Max or Ben, no one is looking for them. And Chucky is so busy trying to give up the rock, he takes 4 or 5 shots in 25 minutes. You can't shoot every 5 minutes and keep the defense honest. Particularly if you are Atkins, who no one considers a serious threat anyway.

    It's one game, but there has been a trend, and it's got to do with not getting other people involved early. Stuck gets himself off, then he fades. By then, no one else is going, and unless CV gets active, we just can't compete down the stretch.

    Until Stuck can figure out when to shoot and when to pass, he's going to score lots of points, and continue to meet 3 men under the basket in crunch time. When he gets Chucky and Jonas some shots, and Ben and Max some lobs, then he's going to see less resistance because teams have to be more honest.
  16. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,438
    Likes Received:
    2,296
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    I just wanted to follow up, that it's not that I think we're going to win a lot of games if Jonas and Ben Wallace get shots, but I can live with losing that way, because the team will get better as they learn to share and trust each other.

    Nothing bad ever came from involving everyone in the offense. Except maybe Kwame Brown. :pound:
  17. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,853
    Likes Received:
    786
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    I think what Roscoe is saying is that we need a PG who is a floor general. I don't buy for 1second that "BS" that Dumars fed Langlois about traditional PG's being a thing of the pass, I just think he had to say that because he knows we don't have a half-way decent PG on this team.

    People say be patient with Stuckey's PG development, I say -hogwash- he has shown me absolutely nothing since he's been in a Piston's jersey that he can ever be a PG for a good team. I do believe he can be a very good 2-Guard that we put at the PG position from time to time, much like what Port does with Brandon Roy, but can you imagine how bad Port would look if they were trying to Brandon Roy into a full fledged PG?

    While Bynum is not doing a very good job of being a floor general either at the Point, I do see some things that make me feel as if with enough experience and tutelage he can eventually get there. Keep working on the jumper, learn how to stay agressive without hogging the ball and make the simple play when it's the right play.

    Eventually I think a 3 guard Rotation of Bynum, Stuckey and Gordon can compete if we get some serious help upfront. Although I'd like to see us bring in a true to life PG/Floor General that can get it done.
  18. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,853
    Likes Received:
    786
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    Play hard
    Share the ball (trust your teammates)
    Have fun
    Play the right way,
  19. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,566
    Likes Received:
    2,895
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    I think he would have, had Bynum not sprained both ankles. A lot of things really went Chucky's way to get some significant playing time.

    But since our bigs don't score much, it probably makes sense to have Bynum play the point and Stuckey the SG until our other guards are back. With Atkins, we have 1 distributor, 1 scorer, and 3 role player/rebounders. That puts way too much attention on Stuckey and makes him inefficient as the defense keys on him.
  20. max

    max All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    7,413
    Likes Received:
    406
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    my bunker in the Carribbean
    Have they been? I know they have the last 2 games but overall it seems like they usually get off to slow starts and came back in the 2nd half. Especially in the last West Coast trip where they came roaring back in the 4th Q just to fall short.

    I don't know if its any one thing besides not having enough talent out there.

Share This Page