Away Toronto Raptors Wednesday, March 12, 2014

Discussion in 'March 2014' started by roscoe36, Oct 21, 2013.

  1. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Let's try to settle a few misconceptions about Bynum:

    Does he shoot the ball too much?
    Per 36 minutes
    Stuckey: 15.8 FGA and 5.2 FTA = 18.4 est FGA
    Jennings: 15.2 FGA and 4.5 FTA= 17.5 est FGA
    Bynum: 15.3 FGA and 4.1 FTA= 17.3 est FGA

    So, if you factor in shots from the field and also shots where they get fouled, Bynum shoots the ball more infrequently than BJ and RS. Chris Paul attempts 14.4 and 5.9 for comparison (17.4), which is identical to Bynum when blending all attempts.

    Conclusion: Bynum attempts shots at a similar rate as the best point guard in the NBA and also at a lower rate than the guy that sent Billups packing and the guy that starts every game for us.


    Now, if he doesn't shoot the ball any more frequently than all these other guys, what could the remaining issues be?

    Does he pass the ball?
    He generates 20.3 points per 48 min on assists. This isn't quite as good as Jennings, who is at 23.5 points, but Jennings is #8 in the league in assists per game right now.
    Bynum's assists generate more points for the team per minute than these guys: Lebron James, Mike Conley, Tyreke Evans, Trey Burke, Isiah Thomas, Kyrie Irving. He's tied with MCW. Bynum gets a lot of assists that result in 3-pointers, which boosts his points off assists total compared to his gross assists. His drive and oop or drive and kicks are both very effective and result in more assists per pass than other players.

    Jennings passes the ball 84.2 times per 48 minutes and gets 10.7 assists (12.7% of his passes)
    Bynum passes the ball 65.7 times per 48 minutes and gets 9.1 assists (13.9% of his passes).

    Does he take good shots?
    WB- .462 eFG/ .508 TS%
    BJ- .468 eFG/ .491
    RS- .451 eFG/ .513

    He has a higher TS% than Jennings and a higher eFG than Stuckey. It is clear that his efficiency on shots is right on par with the other guards on our team. All 3 of them are bad shooters and have low efficiency.


    Is he a bad defender?
    Yes.


    In conclusion:
    We have a bench guard that we are not paying very much money. He basically is producing at the same level as our prize FA starting PG. He shoots the ball as frequently as Chris Paul and he assists at the same rate as Lebron James and a long list of starting point guards that we covet.


    Our bench scored 85 points in this one!
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2014
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I never understood the thing about Will being a ballhog. He's a PG who can score, he has to call his own number to keep defenses honest.
     
  3. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

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    I think the stats bear this out.
     
  4. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I think it's the low total passes. He doesn't like to facilitate general ball movement. He either scores or creates an assist by driving. Either way, the focus of the viewer is constantly on him. This makes him good coming off the bench when he's with guys who have more trouble creating for themselves.
     
  5. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    Bynum, a third tier guard, playing major minutes in the 4th quarter is a symptom of a major problem at the point guard for the Pistons and a big reason why they are not playoff bound. Nobody expects Bynum to be a key to the team. He has played for several years and everyone knows his game. He made a place for himself in the league. But he is not that skilled and does not have the wherewithal to take on the role that he is now playing, since the new coach has rightly backed off a bit on Jennings for lack of production. The fault is with Joe and not Bynum. But as a Piston fan who now wants to win after 4 years of failure, it is not acceptable to see the point guard position holding back the team's big front line be it Jennings or his alternate, Bynum. This situation was created by the GM.

    Teams do not have much trouble in stopping Bynum when they have to. He gets a lot of his points in meaningless times of the game--as was pointed out when the Pistons are hopelessly behind and his points bring the team back to lose by 8. Neither Bynum nor Jennings have shown that they can score in crunch time and actually win a game for the Pistons more than once or twice this entire year. Bynum can easily be stripped of the ball in crunch time. And he does not have defense.

    But again, why is the point guard discussion not on Jennings? His position is a key to this team. Bynum is not suppose to be getting this kind of minutes. Somebody tell me what the story is with Jennings? I expected much, much more. Bynum is giving what he has given for three years. They were losing years. Enough of losing. But Jennings was supposed to be an upgrade over Knight. I haven't seen that. What is missing here?
     
  6. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Plain and simple, Joe just chose wrong in drafting guards the past few of years. He chose to go with the the under the radar guards in Knight and Pope, hoping they would turn out to be superstars instead of going with collegiate players who were leading their teams to the final four as in Kemba Walker and Trey Burke.

    Walker has his team probably in the playoffs. The jury is still out on Burke, but he has won rookie of the month twice, participated in the rising stars all star competition and pretty much out played all of the Pistons guards when he played at the palace a few weeks back.

    We all noticed Pope's shooting struggles in training camp and it never got any better despite him getting more PT in his first 30 games than most Piston rookies had the past 5 years.

    In FA, Joe seems to have grabbed guys that no one else wanted....to satisfy the Piston fan base who always seem to be looking for the big FA to jump start this team back into relevant competition. First it was Gordon and Charlie V, and now Jennings and Smith, who I believe are jacking up shots more out of frustration due to the lack of coaching from bench and direction from upper management. It will take more than a new coach and GM to turn it all around immediately.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2014
  7. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    You don't set the franchise single quarter scoring record, and have multiple 20+ assist games if you're "not that skilled". Austin Daye is what happens if you're "not that skilled".

    Someone has to play PG during this time. Are we supposed to discount his play because he makes the most of his opportunities? Wouldn't it make the argument he is very bad if he didn't play well during GT?

    Strange correlation. Bynum was on a losing team, therefore Bynum was the reason we lost.

    No one wants to talk about Jennings because no one thinks he is particularly good. He hasn't made an impression. He hasn't done anything noteworthy.

    Many times in the last few years, Will has been one of the bright, entertaining spots on what has been an otherwise horrible experience.
     
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  8. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    This sums it up for me.
     
  9. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    This might be why Charlie V is permanently benched. He seems to be owned by bench rookies in practice and his only defense is to whine. You can tell the entire time that Daye knows he is going to win.

    The intro is pretty classic as Charlie is portrayed as the gritty no-nonsense one.



    On the complaint front, it was a 2-2 tie. CV: lack of moneyball and camera lights. AD: alternating format and being mic'd.

    Also notice how once the contest is decided, Charlie goes on a tear and hits 5-5 in garbage time.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2014
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  10. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    Why is the check for $3.14? Some sort of reference to pi?

    For the record, watching that was more painful than watching actual Pistons games. I don't know how idiotic it is for a professional NBA player to complain about a camera affecting his shot.

    What a whiny loser.
     
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  11. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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  12. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    Jennings is the point guard and the GM bet a draft pick that he and 37 year old Billips and Bynum would deliver from that position. When Bynum ( a second tier guard at best) starts getting big minutes and 4th quarter minutes, something is wrong. Of course, the record indicates something is wrong. The point guard position is part of the problem. How many times can anyone recall Jennings and or Bynum hitting key shots to help win games in the last 5 minutes? Or get into the lane, when the game is on the line, when the other team's defense is alert and pressing and make a play. No, I am not impressed with production against loose defenses in an 82 game season when the game is not on the line. That problem starts with Jennings and not with Bynum, true. For the Pistons to start winning again, point guard production has to be addressed, much more so, than Josh's shooting for example. And the key point guard is Jennings.

    Ok, Bynum, if we must. I don't know what records Bynum has or has not set. Good for Bynum. But he is not a great shooter (below average from the 3 point line) for one. I won't go further in knocking the player. He is performing at the level he has performed for 3 some years now--the organization is getting their money's worth--as a second to third tier guard on a poor team whose main weakness is its guard play.
     
  13. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    It's everyone else who brings up Bynum. There are a few of us, mostly linwood, TaS and myself who really like Will, but you won't see us going on about him game after game.

    Is the PG position bad? Absolutely. I'd rather we start Will 82 games over Jennings, and we all know Will isn't an NBA caliber starting PG.

    But the big men are playing bad, we don't have a quality SF, and our bench is lousy. If you fixed any of that stuff, Jennings and/or Bynum would look better. Right now, everyone on the team looks bad because the team is bad top to bottom. There is no one on this team playing amazing basketball, except Andre, and his game is still very green.
     
  14. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    Very balanced assessment. I sometimes waffle too from they're bad to not really that bad. The whole picture definitely looks out of whack.
     
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  15. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I'd like to think we could bring in one guy (a coach or player) who will fix things. The bad news though is that the organization seems to be a mess, first from how Mr. D wanted it run, to how it collapsed with his death, to Joe being unable to assemble front office talent around him.

    There are very few (zero?) good teams where the front office is not top notch.
     
  16. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    It's our scheme that is bad. We have some really good players. If everyone became a FA tomorrow, Drum, Monroe, Smith, and Jennings would all attract some high dollars.

    It may be deficient is certain areas, but this should have been a building year as everyone expected where we could tweak it in coming years to iron out the defects. Instead, it just turned into a train wreck that will get everyone fired.
     
  17. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    You are passionate and frustrated like most us....we understand..
     
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  18. brofmfa

    brofmfa Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Yeas, especially by watching how the young Raptors have their names.
     
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  19. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    Yup. This team is a long way from amazing, much less contention. In fact, they're not even close. They can't tweak a bench player's minutes here and there and make the playoffs. The greatest coach in the world would make them better, but they still wouldn't beat Miami in a seven game series. Like almost every sports franchise in history, the droughts and lean years far outnumber the Glory Days.

    Knowing that, you find things to enjoy. Bynum's tenacity, Dre's athleticism, Smith's power. Singler's efficiency.

    Most teams are bad much more than they are good. The problem with the Pistons over the last few years, in my opinion, is the way they are bad. No hustle, no pride, and no responsibility for their losing ways. Charlie is my least favorite Piston maybe ever. He is the poster boy for CTC. This team needs a heart. In my opinion, Bynum, Drummond, and Singler have the most.
     
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  20. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    All I wanted out of the season was an outline or direction. I didn't care about the playoffs or their record.

    The Pistons tried to shortcut the process with a quick fix and things are every bit as muddled now as they've ever been.
     
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