Trade= Better bench?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by himat, Feb 25, 2006.

  1. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    I was worried about the orlando trade because we had to rely on a old and recovering lindsey hunter. lindsey sucked it up yesterday and gave us some great minutes yesterday in chicago especially early in the fourth even though he had a bad flu. carlos dribbled out the clock way too much, and yesterday's game against chicago was the first game we really saw lindsey, mo, carlos, and dice play together and they played very well and won the game for us yesterday. plus by playoff time we'll see dale in the mix, and just maybe kelvin cato.
  2. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    I have to sit with someone and they have to 'splain this overdribbling to me. I actually don't get to see many games. I like Lindsey though.

    I think the biggest benefit would be allowing other players to get in there and develop.

    if you want to say that we replaced darko and arroyo with hunter and davis then short term, i think it is a slight improvement. hunter is a good change of pace.
  3. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    sometimes arroyo doesn't make a pass to someone early on the shotclock, and he dribbles for a while at the top of the key.
  4. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Delfino, Hunter combo is awesome.

    Great defense and Delfino can handle the ball if necessary. :)
  5. Jackattaq

    Jackattaq First Round Draft Pick

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    Short-term maybe that could be said, only because it forces Flip to give guys like Delfino more minutes. Delfino's ball-handling and defense will be necessary without Arroyo around. I think that will be a huge difference.

    I was out of town for the Chicago game (my mother's basement got flooded, not very fun work to clean that up) so I missed all but the last quarter and a half of that game. I didn't see Hunter in extended minutes but from looking at the stat sheet it was obvious that Lindsay still believes that he is an offensive threat (1-7 shooting in only 11 minutes?). It's more like his offensive game is just plain OFFENSIVE. Until the Pistons start taking the ball out of his hands on offense and restricting him to doing just what he is meant to do out there (PLAY D and PESTER THE OPPOSITION) they will struggle on the offensive end. Hunter is NOT A PG. Flip needs to realize this and not try to make him one.
  6. jzchen

    jzchen Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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  7. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    [24 seconds]: inbounds pass
    [21 seconds]: cross the timeline
    [20 seconds]: commence mesmerizing dribbling with back to the basket
    [9 seconds]: begin slow motion pick and roll execution
    [7 seconds]: commence 2nd pick and roll this time in super dooper slo-mo
    [4 seconds]: frantic drive by PG for missed layup.

    Example overdribbling scenario.

    Generally, it's a psychological disorder, caused by an intense need for basketball skills validation. The symptoms include pounding the rock until it has less than the mandated air pressure, thereby taking the "air out", while ignoring teammates working hard to get open off of double and triple screens, as well as the big men battling for position in the post.

    Treatment usually includes benching, and in some extreme cases, replacement by an aging combo guard with questionable skills.
  8. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Well, all you need to know is that Hunter was +13 for the game, the second best +/-. He was also +11 with Dice in 6:14 of the first half. LH and Dice seem to have a less flashy, more productive relationship than the last backup PG.

    I don't care if Lindsey scores when he is in. I care that the net result of his PT is positive. That is how (IMO) the correct way to measure impact.

    http://www.popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gameflow.cgi?date=20060224&game=DETCHI
  9. Jackattaq

    Jackattaq First Round Draft Pick

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    I don't care either but if LH is in the game and manages to play 11 minutes and jack up 7 shots on 1-7 shooting, it sure seems to reason that LH thinks he should be scoring. I want LH to not look for his own shot, but somehow he always manages to jack up quite a few shots in limited minutes.

    I love his defense and I would really like to see him and Delfino out there trapping on D but I can't emphasize enough how much I hate seeing him JACK UP BAD SHOTS. His 15% FG shooting in the FINALS should be evidence enough that HE CAN"T SHOOT. (okay maybe the 15% is a bit low, but it's not too far off the truth).
  10. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Read that again. Net impact. If LH makes some more shots, he's probably player of the game. In 11 minutes.

    There are more ways to gauge a performance besides box score. +/-, whether that player keyed a run (either way), and of course watching the game 3.5 times.

    Speaking of which, didn't you Tivo this one Jack? It was the best game this year IMHO.
  11. Jackattaq

    Jackattaq First Round Draft Pick

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    I left my wife in charge of starting the recording after she got home from bowling. She got it started with around 6 minutes left in the 3rd quarter. I was out of town (in Midland) to help my mom clean out her basement after she lost power and her sump pump failed to operate (about 8 inches of water down there). I got back Saturday around 3pm and missed the game.

    I've seen LH alot as a player and for as much as he impacts the game defensively, I've seen him have just as big of NEGATIVE IMPACT offensively. I'm not saying that was the case yesterday, but if he is taking 7 shots and hitting only 1 that can't be good for the team's overall success. I just wish he would limit his shooting and stick to what he does best. PLAY D and let the others take care of the scoring.
  12. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    There's been a significant difference in opponents FG%... T.O. & scoring since Lindsey has been inserted into the lineup...
    We'll hear about Arroyo's improvement with the Magic (correlates with more PT)... but the guy just couldn't defend a tea cup with hockey pads.
    Those deflections and on the ball defense IS a big vast improvement over Arroyo's contributions.
    With L.H. just getting up to speed we should see more timely assists (not to be compared with Arroyo's abilities in this area)... I think Flip is working on him to cut down the ball pounding and dish it earlier in the shot clock.... Lindsey's biggest problem is that he's a north/south player without a consistent crossover.
    It's real nice seeing that trap back in the arsenal... drives opponents crazy.

    I'm almost ready to sprout wings on the Delfino/Evans comparisons... like I said a little "actual production" from C.D. would be nice to see vs the vaporware we've been hearing about.
  13. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    yes he missed shots, but he had great D, and he had nice passes.
  14. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    who knows where to find points in the paint stat? i bet you there is a significant difference now that lindsey's playing and not arroyo.
  15. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Lindsey Hunter is responsible for more offense than most give him credit for. Simply put, Lindsey's ball pressure causes turnovers and makes for more fast break opportunites...easy buckets. How? It allows Ben and Tay to do what they do extremely well...play the passing lanes. Another area Lindsey doesn't get credit for is his ability to get the ball up the floor quickly and get the ball to a creater on offense. Hunter may not be the assist guy that Arroyo was, but he doesn't stop the offense from flowing either.
  16. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    great point. lindsey just fits better here. plus he can play better than carlos when he has less minutes. arroyo needs to start to play his game.
  17. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    67 points for the Orlando bench tonight against the Lebrons. Not too shabby. Bo Outlaw rose from the dead.
  18. ahb

    ahb Bench Warmer

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    So Hunter's defense makes "a significant difference" but Delfino's is "vaporware"? Nobody on our bench other than Dice and the point guard will get plays called for them or even touch the ball enough to consistently make any "actual production" in terms of points. That's the way Flip's system is set up; for good or ill, the starters carry almost all of the offensive load almost all the time. Our reserve wings are allotted an abnormally low number of shots for rotation players, and never will develop any consistency or rhythm offensively. However, if they contribute on defense and rebounding, then they are not liabilities when they're on the floor, and "produce" by allowing Flip the opportunity to rest our starters. What Delfino and Evans (on the occasions he plays defense) do is about the most you can ask of them in the circumstances they're put in. If you want more, then your problem is with Flip for telling them to stand around in the corners and do nothing but space the floor and watch the big boys score.
  19. max

    max All-Star

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    Its a better bench for the playoffs.

    Arroyo was a dissapointment to me. His patentent overdribbling, pourous D. His 1 good year with Utah was when they also did not make the playoffs that season. Now he is on another non-contender doing well.

    Arroyo would not have played as much in the playoffs anyway.
  20. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Not to mention JD had his eyes on Buckets. If Delk and LH can rest Bup-Bup more than TDrib did...excellent trade and FA PU

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