Trade Talk

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by max, Feb 29, 2012.

  1. copper

    copper Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2006
    Messages:
    832
    Likes Received:
    125
    Location:
    windsor
    alot of Knights low assist #s can be attributed to his teammates poor shooting % and the fact that 90% of the time when he passes to a teammate that teammate isos and eliminates the assist.
     
  2. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2010
    Messages:
    3,025
    Likes Received:
    1,254
    I filtered the BR database for guys who put up seasons with less than 3.5 AST/G, over 2.5 TOV/G, over 25 starts and over 30 MIN/G. Here are the guys who's put up BK-numbers sorted by PTS/G: (some players show up several times because they have more than one season that qualifies)

    http://www.basketball-reference.com...&c5comp=lt&c6mult=&c6stat=&order_by=pts_per_g

    BK is not through his first full season and he didn't get a proper preseason before starting his NBA career so he'll probably improve his stats until the season ends but it's hard to say anything else than that his PG stats is pretty horrible (maybe the worst ast/tov stats any PG getting this much minutes ever put up). I still really like the pick since he's alot better than the avg PG in other areas but I don't think he's got the potential to become top 10 at his position. If he pans out and becomes the 15th best PG in the league that's about as good as you can hope for when picking 8th in one of the weakest drafts ever.
     
  3. linwood

    linwood All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    Messages:
    4,423
    Likes Received:
    1,439
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Honestly, I didn't expect this much from Knight when we drafted him. I watched most of his games at UK, and I thought that he had a lot of potential, but was very raw at the college level. I thought he would struggle quite a bit at the pro level. He still has a way to go, but he's off to an excellent start!
     
  4. linwood

    linwood All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    Messages:
    4,423
    Likes Received:
    1,439
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    I think he may have the potential to be better than that, but I don't think it will happen overnight. I think it will take 4 or 5 years before he really starts to show what he can do. He may or may not be a Piston then.
     
  5. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    2,534
    Likes Received:
    138
    Location:
    tartu
    Silvertongue's latest mailbag - trades involving Pistons - do not hope too much and reasoning was pretty clear.
     
  6. alexa032

    alexa032 Team Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2007
    Messages:
    783
    Likes Received:
    257
    Precisely. People need to be patient. When Greg Monroe was struggling early in the season last year, people were starting "Greg Monroe = Bust?" threads on other boards. I mean, seriously? All players are different and progress at different paces from each other. You just can't definitively say Brandon's ceiling is this or that 3 months into his first season, especially when some people are still waiting to see what some other player's ceiling is years into his career.
     
  7. del

    del Bench Warmer Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2009
    Messages:
    448
    Likes Received:
    235
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Geneva
    Personally I have 4 untradeable players for where the Pistons are at currently and even going into the 2012/13 season - there is no stat analysis in this, but just from watching this season thus far:

    Knight
    Has been better than expected to this point in his career and at the toughest position. With all the props on how much he works on his deficiencies, if he's not going to be a regular All Star (hate using a popularity contest as a measure) PG, I think he's going to be a very good one that would start on most teams. And if we manage to keep him and GM, and then build around them, then together they will be a solid base for all future trades/draft picks.
    The alternative is good to think of here too assuming he becomes a good starter (not great) point gaurd that can shoot a decent 3 - we draft for another (high risk) or we trade for one and likely give up too much at other positions.

    Stuckey
    May cop some flack for this, but I believe he will work better and better with Knight and with where the Pistons are at currently, there's no point chasing someone better and giving up more at this point in the rebuild. A like for like trade is not also not worth it currently. The Pistons are a few years off being proper playoff material and I think we need to find the other starting pieces first (PF, SF). And maybe, just maybe, (yes, I know it has been said a lot of him) in that time working with an improved PG and hopefully Frank, he may be able to develop that little bit further that we all hoped he'd get to. I don't think he is as bad as everyone makes out though, and I may be wrong on the stats, but just by watching the games this season, I think by playing more at the 2 he has already shown improvement.

    Prince
    Another I will cop flack for. Personally, I hate seeing him throw his hands up in the air when a teammate does something wrong and he may not be the best leader ever, but he is going to be the only senior leader on the team after Ben retires (BG will never fit this role). Sure you could trade in for leadership, but better that a leader comes from inside, and one that has known a Championship year. He still takes some poor shots, but he isn't going to be the focus going forward and he is a good defender that has the ability to guard some good/great players. Eg. I would like to know his record on guarding say Lebron and Kobe, because my impression is that he does a fair job.

    Monroe
    If I have to try and explain this, I give up. He is the future in Detroit.


    After that, JJ is a must to keep off the bench and hope to see him in Pistons Blue for a long time but not the most essential. The rest are all replaceable in my eyes, but again I don't see the rush at this point (seems everyone wants more white balls at the season end anyway) and I don't see Dumars doing any snap decisions before the trade deadline - mostly because the most tradeable assets are those I would keep above.

    Also think Lawrence Frank has been pretty good so far - the difference to Keuster has been such a release on my pent up agression watching games this season. At least until the team is starting to resemble something like a rebuilt roster, I would be keeping him around even if there is another losing season ahead, as what better coach is going to come to Detroit until then.
     
    roscoe36 and coynejeremy like this.
  8. S.J.

    S.J. All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,081
    Likes Received:
    344
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Argentina
    In that list of basketball-reference that Moginly posted, Brandon Knight is the youngest of them all. So, it's fair to say he will not get worse next year and his 3rd. He will improve like he is improving game to game.
     
  9. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,695
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    KGreg posted somewhere else what Boston gave up and then Alexa mentioned in this thread how Boston "mortgaged their future" for the KG trade. The fact is no one Boston gave up has amounted to anything in the league.

    Keeping all those young guys with their endless untapped potential would have been a far more detrimental move for the C's than trading them. Trading potential for proven (KGreg's point) is how you get better.

    What could the Pistons have gotten for Stuckey if they traded him after the '08 ECF instead of holding him tight to their breast?
     
  10. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,695
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    He was also the only PG, I think.
     
  11. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2006
    Messages:
    4,213
    Likes Received:
    362
    Location:
    Ann Arbor/Chicago/Walland, TN

    So if the Pistons can get LB to show up and do a little assistant coaching for the rook...
     
  12. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6,784
    Likes Received:
    2,893
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    My comment was intended for Joe, not you S.J. :wave:
    Joe reads this board.
     
  13. S.J.

    S.J. All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,081
    Likes Received:
    344
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Argentina
    Oh, come on! Joe reading forums? I can't imagine that..

    True, that's why he is the one with more assists (for now) (And tied with Sprewell)
     
  14. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    12,306
    Likes Received:
    1,502
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lake Elmo
    Joe does read this forum. Just ask Roscoe. That's why he signed Stuckey.........and Prince.....And drafted Monroe.
     
  15. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6,784
    Likes Received:
    2,893
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    He's a big fan of the bacon thread.
     
  16. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2009
    Messages:
    4,788
    Likes Received:
    1,509
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm not really worried about his assist-to-tov ratio. It's his first year in the league as a PG, and he has been getting better lately. He's had 3 zero-turnover games within the last 7 games I believe.

    He's really not a half court PG, but more like a fast-break slashing type PG. Looking at the top tier PGs in the league the one that his game reminds me of the most is Tony Parker. Just to compare:

    mpg/FG%/3p%/FT%/rpg/apg/spg/bpg/TO/pf/ppg
    BK this season: 31.8/.413/.375/.815/3.4/3.5/.6/.1/2.51/2.62/12.9
    TP rookie season: 29.4/0.419/0.323/0.675/2.6/4.3/1.2/0.1/1.96/2.16/9.2
    TP this season: 34.4/0.451/0.242/0.806/3.0/8.1/1.1/0.1/2.59/1.35/19.1

    The numbers are quite similar. Knight is a better rebounder, but Parker gets more steals. There is one thing that you need to look at though. In his rookie season, Tony Parker averaged 4.3 apg with 1.96 turnovers (ast-to ratio: 2.19) on a championship-caliber team that featured one of the best centers of all time (David Robinson) and arguably the best power forward to ever play the game (Tim Duncan) in his prime to dish assists to in the front court. On the wings, he had veteran Steve Smith, who was a decent shooter (he shot 47.2% from the 3pt range that year), and Bruce Bowen who, while not a good shooter, was a reliable 3pt threat.

    Knight is averaging 3.5 apg with 2.51 turnovers (ast-to ratio: 1.39) on a lottery-bound train wreck. In the front court he has Monroe and...... Maxiell. On the wings he has Stuckey who's a catch-and-charge type SG, and the palm-and-pumpfake Prince. The situation actually deteriorates when the subs come in.

    The point I'm trying to make is that Knight has the potential to become as good a PG as Tony Parker IMO; with a better shot to boot. But, that's just a potential. I hope he does get there, and what he has shown so far leaves me optimistic. But, we'll have to wait and see.
     
    S.J. and coynejeremy like this.
  17. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,627
    Likes Received:
    2,963
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    One other thing to keep in mind is that the Knight + Stuckey back court does sort of fit Joe's combo guard vision. So, the way that this model is designed is that both guys have the attributes for both positions, but neither one will be top notch at either position. It is supposed to create mismatches as the defense has to put their prototype PG on one and their prototype SF on the other. Knight is the PG, but he's the better shooter. Stuckey is the SG, but he makes his living in the paint.

    It is probably best to look at our guards as one unit when measuring their performance. If Knight gets 5 assists and Stuckey gets 5 assists, that is better than another team with a PG getting 10 assists and a SG getting 0 because it is likely more efficient and more difficult to stop. I have the feeling that if you looked at it this way, we still wouldn't stack up very well against the top teams, but the system has the chance to improve over time. We have a very young rookie PG, a brand new coach, a new owner, and a collection of pieces that don't match- Tay slowing things down, JMax as a temporary solution at PF, and Monroe getting most of his offense off of offensive rebounds and put backs.
     
    Walter likes this.
  18. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6,784
    Likes Received:
    2,893
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    The Washington Generals have expressed a desire to trade Andre Blatche. He has basically the exact same deal that Joe just signed his buddy Tayshaun Prince to. ...Even swap.

    Blatche is a young athletic big (which helps the Pistons).
    Prince is an old and smart SF (which helps the Generals).

    ...I'm bored.
    ...just noticed this smiley: :preggers:
     
  19. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    3,899
    Likes Received:
    1,015
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Howard Stubb's garage
    Nice article by David Mayo on Mlive about the odds Pistons players getting traded by the deadline. Rodney Stuckey is the only Piston who can't be traded before the deadline:

    http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2012/03/detroit_pistons_trade_possibil.html

    (I checked Forbes and they didn't have anything on it yet.)
     
  20. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,627
    Likes Received:
    2,963
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    Joe just needs to set up a youtube video of those Austin Daye game winners last year and then post a bunch of fake comments.
     
    S.J. likes this.

Share This Page