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Trading Rasheed?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by DaviaG-Rap, Jun 2, 2006.

  1. DaviaG-Rap

    DaviaG-Rap First Round Draft Pick

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    I just thought I would come up with some realistic trades the Pistons could make to dismantle our disappointing front court and hopefully improve the team.

    #1- Rasheed, McDyess, Evans for Kenyon Martin and Nene.
    #2- Rasheed and Ben for Garnett.
    #3- Rasheed for Juwan Howard and Stromile Swift.
    #4- Rasheed and 1st rdp for Raef LeFrentz and Al Jefferson.
    #5- Rasheed, McDyess, Evans for Jalen Rose and Channing Frye.
    #6- Rasheed for Lamar Odom.

    Originaly this thread was titled "trading the wallaces" but I can not figure out any way to trade Big Ben, at least not for anything decent. Yes Ben's offense sucks, but looking around the league that is true for most Center's. WHY DID WE HAVE TO TRADE DARKO! WHHHHYYYYYYY?????
     
  2. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 All-Star Forum Donor

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    Because Darko asked to be traded. I wish the Darko pimps would get that through their thick noggins.
     
  3. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Some interesting ideas Dave. I'm not trying to down these, but throwing some counterpoints in for thought.

    Martin is really overrated, and terribly overpaid.

    Personally, not a big KG fan. As someone put it on some forum recently, the next clutch shot he makes will be his first.

    This might be the best idea of the bunch.

    Sheed and a first rounder for 2 underachievers. Jefferson is an inconsistent version of what we hope JMax will be. Makes sense if the Pistons were gunna draft an underachiever with the first round pick. LOL.

    Big sacrifice in size. I think Rose's massive deal comes off the books this year so it would create a lot of cap relief quickly. Plus, of all the Pistons, Sheed and Dice would probably be the most willing to play for LB again.

    If I'm the Lakers, I might not do this deal.

    It wasn't going to work out. Kudos to Joe for cutting the cord early rather than doing what the Bad Boys GM did, holding onto (out for) William Bedford as the team got older.
     
  4. DaviaG-Rap

    DaviaG-Rap First Round Draft Pick

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    OK. WHY DID DARKO ASK TO BE TRADED!!!!!!...WHYYYYYYYY???? Oh yeah because he never played and the organization is built around a player 10 years older, 6 inches shorter, who shoots free throws as if he were surround by a swarm of bee's.
     
  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    And is a 4 time DPOY. A 4 time All-Star and a NBA Champion.

    People hate to admit it, but Ben has been as valuable to this team as Olajuwon was to the 90's Rockets. As Ewing was to the 90's Knicks. As JKidd was to the 2002 and 2003 Nets.

    Not every player is a catalyst. Folks just have a hard time expanding their minds to understand that a player can have big impact without scoring.
     
  6. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 All-Star Forum Donor

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    Stop pining for Darko. The dude is gone. Get over it. You should be more pissed off that Dumars drafted a "project," rather than someone who could help the team right away because that player would probably be helping us in the current series.
     
  7. DaviaG-Rap

    DaviaG-Rap First Round Draft Pick

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  8. DaviaG-Rap

    DaviaG-Rap First Round Draft Pick

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    I'm not dising Ben or his accomplishments. I just think the Darko situation was handled very poorly. Trading him to clear some capspace for a limited player on the decline was DUMB and will be one of the biggest blunders in NBA history. It will probably be bigger than drafting him in the first place.
     
  9. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Martin's #s and games played were pretty good before he jacked up his knee. Nene is another player whose hype exceeds his production.

    Sheed has been clutch as a shooter. How many games have you seen him miss late shots down the stretch and lose? Not too many. Granted he doesn't take a lot of shots, but when the team needs a couple post up baskets or a big 3, he's been there 9 times out of 10.

    Small ball won't fly in the East. It's not just size, it's personnel. There are only 2 PGs who can run that system. Nash and to a lesser degree, Kidd. Billups is not a good enough "quick" decision maker to run a freestyle offense.

    If you're measuring production strictly in raw stats, then Sheed isn't impressive. If you're comparing LaFrentz's defense to Sheed's, there really is no similarity. I was joking along with you about the 2 underachievers for Sheed and an underachieving pick....

    McDyess ain't that old. He's only holding down the spot because no one is man enough to take it from him. He's not the most energetic player or brilliant defender. I'd bet dollars to cents that JMax will steal that job or put a big dent in it next season.

    That's irrelevant. I watched his first and second games in ORL. He never ONCE played with that much energy or passion here. It's like lamenting that your crazy ex-girlfriend found a man and they are happy together. Not every situation is equal.
     
  10. DaviaG-Rap

    DaviaG-Rap First Round Draft Pick

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    I am pissed we wasted a #2 pick in one of the greatest draft classes ever. I am also pissed we traded him before we knew what we had. I'm all kinds of pissed at the situation and you should be too. Don't delude yourself man- just because Darko didn't endear himself to you doesn't mean he won't be a darn good player.
     
  11. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    The league has lots of great players. Great teams and guys who fit together win titles. There is more to it than being tall or making shots. Dallas didn't make it with Nash, Finley, and Nowitzki. Sacramento didn't make it with Divac, Bibby and Webber. Indiana didn't make it with Miller, O'Neal and Artest.
     
  12. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 All-Star Forum Donor

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    Actually, we agree. I don't think Dumars should have EVER drafted Darko. Why draft a "project" in a deep draft? They should have drafted Wade as a No. 2 guard, but Dumars got it in his head that he was in love with Darko. You draft with your head, not your heart. Hopefully, Joe realizes this now.

    But when Darko was here, I posted a couple times on detnews that he should be developed and get some minutes in the second quarter when the game was still on the line. They didn't do that. I didn't agree with the strategy, but I'd rather use my words now to post about people wearing Pistons uniforms, not Magic uni's. Darko's gone. No reason you shouldn't root for him now, but you seem to root for him at the detriment of the team of which you're allegedly a fan.
     
  13. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    I've been a big critic of Sheed lately but you still have to replace his length... there are a limited amount of PF's that can effect T.D., J.O. and KG defensively...
    When Sheed is right not many can block his shot...
    I'm trying to consider his recent ankle problems and not make his recent performance be the primary judgment factor.
    That said, we need to insert some youth and athletisim...
    last year I would have taken the KMart/Nene deal without blinking... but they're just too uncertain physically.

    Of Dave's deals I would consider the Frye/Rose deal for Frye's upside and length... There's a lot of things that can be done with Rose's contract....

    Odom is a fine offensive talent but he's a poor defender... we would be too soft inside defensively.
     
  14. webz

    webz All-Star Snub Administrator 2x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    i'm pissed too, knowing how good we could possibly be having someone like bosh in our frontcourt. if he was here, this discussion would cease to exist, as would many of these trade ideas because we would be going 'fo,fo,fo' fo sho!
     
  15. DaviaG-Rap

    DaviaG-Rap First Round Draft Pick

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    AHHHH....AHHHH.....AHHHH....SHHHEEEEEEEDD!!! Excuse me. I am allergic to homerism. Sheed has been all hype here and not enough production.


    AHHHH....AHHHH....I'll hold it in. Sheed has made big shots. Usually he is the one hitting the daggers. I don't know about Clutch shots though? I don't think he has made one game winner for us in like 12 attempts. Usually he just ends up fumbling the ball out of bounds. He certainly wasn't clutch closing out on Horry, he still hasn't backed up any of his guaransheed's with a decent performance, and he has been non-existent in this Heat series.

    I am not talking about systems, I am talking about matchups. Just saying with KG we might have to go smaller in the frontcourt. Like Amare and Marion we might have to have KG and....? Maxiell, AJ, or some other player.



    I disagree there were a number of occasions where Darko played like that here. Usually the energy showed when he played 2nd quarter minutes, which were obviously rarity here in Detroit.

    This has nothing to do with spite or petty jealousy. I'm happy for Darko in Orlando. I'm pissed at our organization.
     
  16. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    This is one of those cases were I sometimes wonder if the person I am arguing with has the historical perspective on the player in question to make a statement like that.

    Sheed was never hyped here as our go-to guy. Except for 2 seasons, he really wasn't the go-to guy in Portland. That's part of why the fans and media turned on him there, and as a result, we won a championship with him and have been the most dominant team in the East while Portland keeps looking at Zach Randolph and wondering when he will become Elton Brand as they shuffle through lottery picks. Again, if you're looking for raw #s, he's never going to satisfy you. And yet GMs and coaches around the league recognize him as a bonafide game changer. Why do you think that NJ was so pissed we traded for him?

    He's turned numerous games with his shooting. "Don't leave me!" ring a bell?

    He made a mistake on Horry, but was it any more heinous than CBill throwing up transition treys in the 4th quarter of Game 7? Win as a team, lose as a team.

    As far as this Heat series, he's playing on a bad wheel. Still came up with a steal, 2 blocks and some key boards while backing up Tayshaun with Zo in Game 5.

    If you're looking for KG numbers, go follow KG. Team building is not taking the most statistically impressive guys and loading them up on one squad.
    You gunna matchup in the halfcourt small? You have to run to maximize a lineup like that. To run, you need a bonafide floor general. Amare and Marion weren't jack with Marbury (who is a lot closer to CB's game than CB is to Nash).

    We'll have to agree to disagree.

    If it's not about jealousy or spite, why do you keep bringing up Darko when talking about Sheed? Why do you keep bringing up Orlando when we are talking about changes to the Pistons?

    Both you and bball jay keep grinding the same axe (going on 2 years now). One of you does Sheed vs. Darko, the other Ben vs. Darko. Either way, it's sad. Darko is gone. He is probably never ever coming back. No matter how much y'all complain, one of, if not, both of Sheed and Ben will be here next year and there is nothing you can do about it. So why not move on, and quit bringing up Orlando's season finish, like it has any relevance on where we are today. Last time I checked, the guys winning games for them were Hedo, Howard and Nelson. Arroyo and DMC were complimentary not cataclysmic (sp?!). That team got better when they traded Stevie Franchise and sat Grant Hill down.
     
  17. Robert Michael

    Robert Michael First Round Draft Pick

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    I do kind of wonder what would have happened had we held on to Darko and Arroyo. Arroyo would be able to break down the Miami D and get some real penetration. Not like Chauncey who loses the handle every time he tries to drive. And would Darko have been able to give us a shot blocking presence off the bench that we have been sorely lacking in this series? They might have made some difference, honestly.

    I can see trading Sheed. He infuriates me almost every game. I don't like any of these trades, however. Not one.

    Delfino is looking to be traded according to MLIVE, so we can package the two of them together and get someone who can make a serious impact. I would love to Iverson in Piston colors.
     
  18. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 All-Star Forum Donor

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    Gee, Robert, if we part with a 4 and 2 (Sheed and Delfino), wouldn't it be nice to get a front-court guy or someone to spell Tay instead of a guard? I like Iverson, too, but he would probably disrupt the team concept. They guy takes too many shots. I like his guts, but not his FG percentage.
     
  19. anakin

    anakin First Round Draft Pick

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    How about JMax to spell Tay? Different type of player who will provide a physical presence at SF. Plus I think JMax will also drop a few points. Of course all this depends on how good JMax is and becomes.
     
  20. ahb

    ahb Bench Warmer

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    I'm with themicrowave on virtually all of that.

    I'm not seeing quite where people think Maxiell is a scorer, though. He's about as much of a post-up scorer as Garnett is - turnaround jumper or nothing, and he hasn't proven he can get that TAJ off against power forwards or centers in this league. And, 6-6 or not, he is a big man and not a 3.
     

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