traitors?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Buckeyes#1, Apr 27, 2009.

  1. professor

    professor Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    I understand what you're saying. As sometimes happens here, the attempt to be brief leads to some misunderstandings where certain terms (like economics and morality) that have multiple definitions are concerned. As usual, you raise what are, to me anyway, profound philosophical and ethical questions. It's too late and I'm too tired to address your position Roscoe. I mean no disrespect, either, but I'm still not convinced that the forum is the best place for me to take up some of these questions (I have that occupational hazard of some humanities professors in which I need to have my terms defined pretty precisely in a discussion and then I need the terms used in the definition defined pretty precisely, and that takes a level of focus and persistence that I'm not sure I can manage in this venue). In this case: what do you mean by "well", "economically," "morally", and "good" (I'll leave out "perform" and "be" for now ;))?

    But as per this thread: I really didn't think I was saying anything controversial or earth shattering. All I'm saying is (1) that their over-riding priority -- as a business -- must be to make profits and, insofar as possible, ensure their long-term profitability; and (2) if that priority ever conflicts (or is even perceived by the business owners to conflict) with the goal of making Pistons fans feel happy or respected, then (3) the owners will obey the first, over-riding priority, unless (4) fans express their emotions by not buying product.

    Or, in other words, maybe the difference between a good capitalist and a crummy one is NOT that the good one really really cares how his or her customers feel and that crummy one doesn't. It's that the good one recognizes that there is some kind of correspondence between his customers feeling good about his product and his business and the profits he makes and the crummy one disregards or does not perceive that correspondence.

    Or, one last time: it stinks having an emotional attachment to an entity (like a business) that does not have as its first priority respecting your emotional attachment to it.

    Or, a business is not one's friend (even if sometimes business behavior produces effects on one that are similar to the effects that one's friends produce on one).

    egad, i gotta go to sleep. put a nickel in a professor and blah blah blah
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Have a good rest.
  3. max

    max All-Star

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    That's the thing. I could have went and did not. How many of you thought about going? I know distance is an issue with some but for others - you could have picked up one of those $11 tickets.
  4. booggerg

    booggerg First Round Draft Pick

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    Seriously why does that even matter? Who is "us"? You're not a member of the Pistons. At the end of the day these b-ball players will go back to their mansions eliminated from the playoffs or not, and we'll just go back to our 9-5, work our asses off, and worry about more important things in our lives.
  5. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    BLAH BLAH BLAH... :MusicBigGrin:

    :pound::pound::pound::pound:
  6. Tha Locstah

    Tha Locstah First Round Draft Pick 1x Fantasy Champion

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    I agree. The fans (of which I am included) should never root against our team. However, many of these fans might have the feeling that our "team" (I use that term loosely) have given up on themselves. Not a trait I want my team to have. It doesn't excuse the act of cheering on the opposition but rather may have had something to do with it. I for one am disgusted to hear about this and would never condone it. Every time I have ever set foot in the Palace I "went to work"! Although it may have been a little easier for me as "goin' to work" meant drinking my fair share of booze.
  7. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    The danger in being a traitor is that after you make a quick profit, you risk demise.
  8. Buckeyes#1

    Buckeyes#1 First Round Draft Pick

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    Good point.
  9. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Can 200 people make enough noise to have an MVP chant come across the TV?

    This shouldn't be surprising though, when was the last time $$$ didn't drive a move the Pistons have made?
  10. Buckeyes#1

    Buckeyes#1 First Round Draft Pick

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    I can understand Piston fans selling tickets on ebay or whatever to Cav fans because you can't ask "who do you root for". That would probably be illegal to refrain from selling to someone based on that. So I get that there were alot of Cav fans that got into the Palace, thus cheering on their team. I highly doubt many Piston fans cheered for Cavs to mock the Pistons. My problem is with the management that went out of their way to find the Cav fans.
  11. Tha Locstah

    Tha Locstah First Round Draft Pick 1x Fantasy Champion

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    It's a business. Gotta put butts in the seats somehow. If they don't who's gonna pay those salaries. You wanna guaransheed the place is packed with Piston fans? Then put a quality team on the floor. Not a bunch of crybabies who whine like little kids forced to eat their brussel sprouts.

    [​IMG]
  12. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Ok, I guess I can agree with that. I think the underlying thing here is that when Pistons fans cease to be customers (and clearly Pistons fans were not willing to pay to watch the team) then it's not unreasonable for the Palace to seek customers elsewhere.

    After all, most Palace employees put bread on the tables of their homes in Michigan, and I would imagine a good many of them are Pistons fans.

    Ultimately, the Palace will thrive by making some fans happy, Pistons fans or otherwise. And so it should be.

    Precisely. Success in business is achieved by serving your fellow man (presuming you can't use coercion to extract profits from him). The more people you serve, more often, the happier they are, the more money they will part with, and so on. Clearly unhappy fans exercised their opportunity costs otherwise than buying Pistons tickets for the 2 home games. The Pistons adapted their business model to accommodate other customers, until such time as they can attract their local customers back.

    It's a key relationship. It is very hard to be successful by making your customers feel bad. The Pistons will pay for this decision if they do not field a competitive team quickly. And maybe it will teach them not to do it again. Not to be in a position where the fans who buy tickets become apathetic.
  13. Nemo

    Nemo Pun Master Forum Donor

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    Pretty cool of Ilitch... Opposite of the "traitors" values set by the Pistons....

    When the Tigers open their season this week, fans will look to centerfield at Comerica Park and see the greenery, the flagpoles and the giant fountain. And, as usual, every time there's a Detroit home run, those fountains will erupt.

    That spot, in the stadium business, is what they call prime real estate. Companies pay big money to have their logo smack dab in the middle, so that every time fans gaze out there, the brand is what they see. For the last few years, General Motors has sponsored that fountain, and paid a substantial fee to do so.

    This season, with all that has happened in the auto business, GM's folks called the Tigers and said, regretfully, they could no longer afford it. Given the layoffs, the bailouts, the threat of bankruptcy, well, owning centerfield was too great a luxury. GM had to step aside. Which is when Mike Ilitch, the Tigers' owner, stepped in.

    There were other bidders. Other offers. Who wouldn't want that real estate? A deal of three years worth between $1.5 million and $2 million was on the table.

    Ilitch said no thanks. He was going to give it away. Or maybe "give it back" is a better way of putting it. Chalk up an outfield assist. "It just seems strange to have the car companies in trouble," he told me this past week. "The Big Three, where would this city be without them? I mean, my father came from the old country and got a job at Ford's. It put food on our table. It's scary to think that any of those carmakers could go away."

    So Ilitch told his people to thank the potential paying customers, but to say that the centerfield fountain this year was spoken for. It would be the feature site for General Motors, Ford and Chrysler. For free. No charge. Not one penny. "It's just a small opportunity to respond to what's happening," Ilitch said, embarrassed by the attention. There's nothing small about it. Every business has been affected by the collapsing economy; baseball teams are no exception. Walking away from a couple million dollars is not considered a wise financial move. Who turns away paying customers? In this case, Ilitch did. Because sometimes it's about the where and the who, not just the how much. A message from the ballclub "I thought for a few weeks before deciding," Ilitch admitted. "I didn't want to offend anybody. I didn't want to put off the foreign carmakers. And I didn't want people to think we couldn't sell the fountain. As a businessman, you do worry about those things. But I finally said, 'The heck with it.' I want to do something to help."

    So, starting with the home opener this Friday afternoon, the Chrysler, General Motors and Ford logos will be on an equal plane above the fountain. And beneath those logos will be a few new words: "The Detroit Tigers support our automakers."

    It may be as close to a social statement as centerfield has ever made. Visitors in Detroit for this weekend's Final Four may think our small, thriving downtown looks a lot like other cities' downtowns. But there is something different beneath the surface. Here, we construct in the face of adversity. We build on hope. Pure investors will tell you a city with rampant unemployment, enormous budget shortfalls, a troubled school system and a laughable city council is not a place to put your money. We do it anyhow. We do it because we love our past and we believe in our future. We do it because the alternative would be to close shop altogether. We do it because last week there were stories about the gleaming new Yankee Stadium, which cost $1.5 billion and has seats as high as $2,625 a game - and here is Ilitch giving away his fountain for free. Detroit may be the new home of the bumpy ride, but as the Three Musketeers once discovered, it's a little smoother when you grab hands with others. Think about that the next time a home run sends that fountain shooting up to those logos. Sometimes it really is all for one and one for all.
  14. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I agree. Classy move.

    [​IMG]
  15. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    You're a good egg Mr. Illitch. :p_welldone:
  16. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Class act. That almost got me teared up a little.
  17. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Smart businessman. He knows better than to crap in his own backyard.
  18. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Agreed. But don't you think he would have done it anyhow just because he is a decent guy? I like to think so. Given his history with the city, I believe he truly does care about it.
  19. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    I guessing Cloud would frown on that too.
  20. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Well, I would argue that part of being a good businessman is being a good citizen and a good neighbor.

    Being successful is not easy to do without caring about your customers.

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