Tuning out Flip??

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Dlev59, May 28, 2006.

  1. Dlev59

    Dlev59 Bench Warmer Moderator

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    Well, well, well. Ben refusing to enter a game, Dyess refusing to start a game and now Sheed not taking part in a timeout.

    Are the mighty Pistons tuning Flip out? One has to ask this question as it seems one at a time the players are taking a stand against their coach.

    I don`t know if this is the case, however, the timing of these issues are not good. I honestly believe Flip is afraid to get in his players faces and God forbid, discipline them for questioning him.

    You are the coach Flip, maybe if you had the balls to stand up to them they might respect you more.

    I don`t know which is worse, the team coaching themselves or Flip with his poor adjustments and passive coaching personality.

    Either one = no title.
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I've been reading a lot of forums, it's always interesting to see who claims to have "inside info". One rumour is that there is a "racial issue" between coach and players. Probably total BS.

    All I know is, this thing is broke. The players are unhappy and not functioning. The coach doesn't seem to really have a plan or know what he is doing. Not to sound arrogant, but it really sounds like the Pistons are beating themselves.

    And it was all supposed to be Blue Skies after Big Bad Larry got fired... :ohwell:
  3. aurora

    aurora Bench Warmer

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    Anyone know where in the game the Sheed sitout timeout was? Also where he cussed into the camera? And where he cussed at Flip?
    Third quarter was it?
  4. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Come on, the racial issue will always eb and flow.
    What a short white guy bossing tall black guys, that's the way it's always been.
    ...Or maybe it's a guy with twitches bossing athletic guys without twitches. It could get to you after a while.
    ...Please don't try and sneak "LB is good" thought in here. He's more done than Darko.
    ...I really think Flip is pushing buttons now. Wins, mean he pushed the right ones. But the simple question is, "are we better than Wade and Shaq and Riles and whom ever"? Wade is bad but we should be able to defense him. Let's see what happens in game 4.
    Dyess is making BBj look silly. God Dam Dyess quit smiling so much and get the job done. Is he caught up in some kind of BBen respect spat?
  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Didn't I write it was probably BS?

    Yeah, but we still love you, twitches and all.

    I'm not trying to sneak LB is good in. I just want to remind all the folks who said that ANYONE could coach this team, that they are all full of crap. Good coaches are hard to find.

    Dyess has been lousy. He's shooting 41 %. He's a career 50% shooter. He's up against arguably the weakest part of the Heat's lineup. He's had 2 games this series with 20+ minutes, and only pulled down 4 boards in each.

    He has no excuse for fatigue, he played less than 18 minutes per game in the last series, and he's still below his season average right now.

    Sheed's lame. This is when the "6th starter" is supposed to kick in.
  6. professor

    professor Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    I think it was in the first quarter actually. Sheed was already way frustrated by the hooking offensive foul on him when he first went to the hoop in the first quarter. But we also know he got pissed off at Flip for hacking shaq with 4:28 to go and the pistons down 8.

    who knows? as someone said at some point during the cleveland series: there seems to be enough blame to go around. overall in this series: everyone's head has been in firm anal insertion mode at some point or another.
  7. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    "Sheeds lame". What, not just his ankle? His brain?
    I thought Dyess wanted this so bad? Why is he deferring to others?
  8. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    It appears that something is going on between Flip and his players. Lack of discipline, having no faith in Flips rotation or his offense, i.e.

    The bench players have already voiced thier displeasure with playing time i.e.

    The Pistons are supposedly a team that doesn't need a lot of coaching. Is Flip imposing his will on the starters not giving them flexibility to change plays ala Larry Brown.

    It's very apparent that something stinks on the bench and something defintely stinks inside the locker room.

    Either way it's time for this veteran team to take over and play lwith the emotion and something to prove to the world attitude we have all come to know.

    The team may need to sit Flip down at the end of the bench and play their game. They have been playing together longer than Flip has been coaching this team.
  9. professor

    professor Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Well, Joe D. is the one, finally, responsible for everyone being here.

    I'm wondering if it's not time for him to step in (or has he already?) and have a chat with everybody together. I'd think that Joe D. has the perspective from which to see what Flip AND the players could do better, and he's got the rings and the attitude to command their respect.

    Or maybe it doesn't work that way. Just a thought.
  10. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Right there with ya, Prof. JD needs to read these guys the riot act. Before the next game.
  11. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    You are absolutely 100% correct. Joe D needs to step in, assess the problems, put everything into perspective and use his experience and expertise to right the ship.

    He doesn't have to mandate that Flip play a particular lineup or who and when to play whom. he just have to evaluate what the issues are, an intermediary to try an determine what the issues are, and belive me there are issues.

    Nothing that can't be worked out.
  12. lemonpen

    lemonpen First Round Draft Pick

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    That might be an effective move if JD hadn't already pulled that card when we faced elimination during the last series. Who knows maybe one come to Jesus meeting is allowed each series.
  13. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    ben only pulled down 6 in 30 minutes so what's your point?? mcdyess was rolling before the playoffs started and flip cut his minutes like he was a regular reserve. everytime mcdyess starts to get rolling flip thinks it's time to sub the starters back in. also flip rarely plays our best lineup which is mcdyess and sheed in there at the same time. no ben wallace in there to clog up the lane. you can't ask for consistency if you don't give it. i know that's the idea of a bench be ready when called upon but doing it is a much harder thing.

    he is off his rythm and anytime he starts to get it going flip subs him back out. the 6th starter should be getting starter minutes but instead flip is trying to save ben's ego.
  14. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Jay, you are acting like a troll. You may be the closest thing this board has to a troll.

    You only seem to come around when things are going bad. After a loss we can always expect you to pay us a visit. You seem to enjoy the team's poor play so that you can tell us what could have been "if such and such".

    We don't need you to add salt to our wounds. I'm sure you will be here to pissss on the Pistons grave as soon as they lose their next playoff series.

    Come on, I would hope you are better than that.

    I don't mind the gloom & doom folks, but it ticks me off to see people that portray themselves as Pistons fans, but would be much happier to see Orlando win a championship with Darko than to see the Pistons win without him.

    Sometimes you make good points, but your motives suck.:spy:
  15. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Sheed pissed at Flip?... yeah maybe so... about damn time!
    That boy needs a size 20 on his backside.
    Could someone please give a legit reason why a player would ignore his team during a timeout?
    My guess is Flip is pushing Sheed in an uncomfortable area (like we need more effort to fight for position).
    This may not come out til after the season (gag order from above)... but players not responding to coaches is hardly a new concept (Ben reacting to LB publicly blasting the team).
    I think sometimes players & coaches need to reach a boiling point before progress is made... the question is how will Sheed respond?
  16. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Brother Mercury,

    I know it fits into the mold that Sheed is rebelling, but if you read today's practice press stuff, Tay and Ben both have a problem with the play calling.

    It sounds like this is a powderkeg, Sheed's just the most visible guy and everyone's favorite whipping boy.
  17. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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  18. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    For the sake of argument (we may have a much clearer picture tomorrow), let's assume Detroit loses the series to Miami.

    Do you guys think Flip will get fired? In an earlier post (not sure which thread), Mercury stated he thought it was unrealistic to think that they would fire him after only one year. I was thinking the same thing at that time.

    However, now it looks like there is some juicy "stuff" going on. I now think it is quite possible, if not probable, that Flip is gone if he's truly lost his players attention.

    OK, so how crazy would it be for Joe just to take over the reigns tomorrow. I know it won't happen, and maybe Joe doesn't know diddly about the X's and O's of coaching, but would that not light a huge fire under some players arses?

    I dunno what's going to happen tomorrow, and I can see either team winning a close game, but that game will be pivotal either way, I think.

    Flip wasn't my first choice as Piston's coach, but I thought they would be fine with him before the season began, and I stated so. I thought I was correct in my assumption as the season progressed and through the first round of the playoffs. I gave him a glowing round of full support early in the Cleveland series. I spoke to soon.

    But now I think maybe he is an idiot. I'm not blaming him for everything, but I really question what he is doing. I'm not an X's and O's guy. So if I can see some of the weaknesses, I figure they are glaring.

    I spoke too soon in supporting him so I'm not going to say I was wrong yet...but I'm darned close! :yield:

    Anyhow, would it be crazy to save our season by letting Joe step in (it's a fantasy...I realize this). Or would it throw everything off kilter and be too large a distraction?

    Food for thought.
  19. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    If the players and coaches are getting along all the time the coach isn't pushing any buttons.... I like the edge.
    There's equal blame to be passed out... play calling and execution
    Powderkeg?... umm... how bout needed friction.
  20. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Joe is not a coach. He's also very concious of roles, and stepping in ala Kevin McHale (man does that seem weird to type now, we were all laughing at McHale 18 months ago) would be a negative move.

    I don't think Flip will be fired. Who really knows where the blame really lies. I keep reading though those comments, Tay saying that they didn't execute the plays that worked in Game 2, that they didn't go to the counters they talked about running, and you have to wonder if it is a direct indictment of Flip or Chauncey.

    One thing is for sure. Chris McCoskey is an idiot. He responded on Stoney and Wojo a few days back that Greg Anthony had no idea what was going on in the Pistons locker room to make comments about possible trouble. Well, Chris must just sleepwalk through his job, or someone at the Palace has incriminating photos of him, because at this point, serious locker room issues are no longer a question. What is in question is who is the problem and can they find a way to come together to save this series, and the title run.

    On a lighter note, I was reading some quotes from Chuck Daly on how he managed the Bad Boys. Laimbeer was Isaiah's enforcer, and together they ruled the locker room. They dealt with calling guys out, maybe kicking some butt, and threatening non-performers (perceived or real). What a different world.

    Anyways, Chuck used to do a neat trick with Zeke. He would give him the game plan as a set of open options, and let Zeke choose how they would play P&Rs, double-teams etc. But he would steer Zeke with the info he gave him to make the choice that Chuck wanted him to make.

    Empower the player, but don't let them choose the Lion behind door #3.

    Chuck truly was a great coach handling a bunch of headcases like Mahorn, Laimbeer, Thomas, Dantley, Aguirre etc.

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