Tuning out Flip??

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Dlev59, May 28, 2006.

  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I'll buy that. I've been defending Flip like crazy for the last two weeks. I'd really like a coach to work out in Detroit for the long haul.
    If they can't get on the same page, that's unneeded friction.

    Tay's wondering why they aren't running what they said they would run.

    Sheed's pissed he gets yanked and stops getting fed when he's feeling it. Dice wonders why Sheed wasn't fed either.

    And Ben says Dale is no help because he hasn't played.

    It doesn't matter who is right or wrong, but whether it's fixable NOW.
     
  2. 1989

    1989 First Round Draft Pick

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    I agree. There really is something to be said for continuity, not just on the floor, but on the bench as well.

    Since Daly left, I don't think we've had anyone last so much as three seasons. (Daly was here for nine.)
     
  3. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    OK, so how about Bill D. offers Chuck a million bucks to coach a handful of games? I like that solution even better! lol.

    Crap. This team is so close to a championship, but I feel like it's slipping away needlessly and tomorrow may be our last realistic chance to keep it going.:fear:

    Faith...I gotta have faith. :fingerscr:pray:
     
  4. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Last I checked they had a solid game two games ago...ie same page... my personal belief is that Miami changed up some things... now it's our turn...
    I think it's important to look at a medium trend vs highs and lows...
    this would suggest that the offense has been successful all year shooting from long range... since the Cleveland series the shots have still been available but missed on a more frequent basis... we haven't had a consistent inside game all year to compensate for this shooting deficiency.
    The biggest concern is reducing inside penetration... Shaq is preventing Ben from helping.
    We'll never know where the coaching leaves off and planned execution by the players takes over.... if they're not executing the plan then you run into needed/unneeded friction.
    Let's talk after the series is over before we say this internal problem is significant and irreversible.... one thing we've learned is attitudes can change quickly.
    Good thing the 89/90 teams didn't have lockeroom problems :P
     
  5. professor

    professor Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    yes merc. i dig that we all need something to talk about now that things aren't going well. but i sure don't want to add to the madness. so i appreciate your pointing out some specific things that still need to be done in this series (since, in fact, the series isn't over, and it isn't even over if they go down 3-1), and leaving the exaggerated conclusions based on speculation and the interpretation of interviews for when there aren't any games left to watch.
     
  6. BigDaddy

    BigDaddy First Round Draft Pick

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    Beat me to it(must take me longer to reread there weren't no pictures)

    Ben siad that Chauncey will call a play and they will override coach(ESPN interview i believe).Now it's one thing if it works,lately it hasn't been.Chauncey got off shooting wise in game 3 but noone else got rolling.Why hasn't it been working?Sometimes you don't think when certain situations arise or your in the middle of it.Look what we made Wade do when we made him make decisions he turned the ball over alot.

    Not to take anything away from the players but the coach is more or less doing what us fans are doing,he is on the outside with seats for the game I would kill for looking in.Even the players have said it's good to sit down for a minute to see what is going on in the game,little things you miss when you are on the floor.

    I personally think there is a rift in the locker room.From coaches against players to players against players.Someone said button pushing needs to be there and band of brothers or not you don't always have to agree or get along.Noone argued or kicked my brothers ass like I did and maybe we are starting to see some of this cropping up.The core has been together for awhile and things aren't going as rosey as they were during the regular season.

    Dunno maybe I'm way off base.I really like other peoples takes so fire me up.
     
  7. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Yeah but Jack McCloskey and Chuck had a very delicate relationship. Jack originally tried to hire Chuck before he went to Cleveland, but the money wasn't right, and the roster didn't look too appealing.

    He also wouldn't pay Chuck what he wanted in 86 or 87 (so close, can you imagine?).

    At some point during the Bad Boys run, Chuck wanted to interview for a HC job in Philly and was denied (I think this was tied into the wage thing).

    And of course, Chuck was unceremoniously pushed out with Ron Rothstein calling his games 10 feet away in his last season, basically circling the job like a vulture.

    McCloskey was a failed coach who made good as a GM (with a lot of luck, and some valuable input from Daly). Buddha and Lambs were both players for Daddy Rich in Cleveland. The Dantley for Aguirre move was equal parts Daly and Thomas.
     
  8. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Big Daddy, I don't want to fire anyone up. But I don't want to avoid discussing stuff like this, because getting the complete interviews (which reporters who stayed in town will use to flesh out their stories tomorrow) is a rare gem. We all wanna know what is what with the team. Get closer to the action.

    I know from personal experience that if things are too lose, that's bad. And if things are too tight, that can only carry you so far. It's a delicate balance that's needed.

    I've had this stuff swirling in my head for the last couple of days. I truly enjoy this bunch, even (don't tell Buckeyes#1) Chauncey. ;)

    I don't want to see it coming to an end, but I'm not going to close my eyes to the fact that two principal players have contract negotiations coming up soon (Ben now, and Chauncey later) and no title (or maybe even worse, with a title) things get much more complicated.

    Ben really pulled me back to the Pistons 5 years ago. Rip is so much more than people give him credit for. Tayshaun is really coming into his own, and Sheed is a player I followed in the West back when his frontcourt mate was Arvydas Sabonis. Chauncey is just coming into his prime.

    They gotta keep this rolling. But man they are ticked off right now.
     
  9. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Good call...
    Flip has a sit down with Chauncey... the jist was that you should keep shooting and we believe in you... ITMT (in the mean time) Chauncey's starting to feel the heat on not living up to the season's performance...so Chauncey decides to go out and take on more of the scoring load ... Tay and others see less touches like the previous game (also due to more attention by Miami)... coaching blunder?... I guess if you want it to be.
     
  10. Robert Michael

    Robert Michael First Round Draft Pick

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    My favorite Piston coach ever is Chuck Daly. Daddy Rich had a way with the players (they loved him mostly) and he was a defense first, hard nosed, warrior chief at the same time. Very slick operator. I'd love to see him come out of retirement and give us two years as head coach with Laimbeer as his protege assistant.

    I doubt Flip is totally to blame for what is going on, but I still am not feeling him either.

    Whatever the case, as long as we win I don't care how happy everyone is on the team. But, I seem to be witnessing many things that make me suspect that if we do win it may be in spite of Flip. The Ben Wallace and Shaq a hack stuff bums me out to no end. Flip should not have started that foolishness considering that Shaq is a much better FT shooter in the clutch... (how sad to say, b.t.w.)

    I'm not impressed with how Flip rotates the players, at all. Neither are they. Bad news.

    I still think we rally and win this series. But I hope this locker drama clears out, pronto.
     
  11. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I think this is how the Lakers felt in 2004. :ohwell:
     
  12. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    There's little doubt that Flip deserves his share of the finger pointing....
    As did LB, Cola & Daddy Rich when the Bulls took over...
    There doesn't exist a coach that pleases everyone and doesn't screw up.
    We've been fortunate with the bi-annual coaching changes... but another firing in just one year would severerly effect Joe's rep to bring in quality coaches in the future.... LB's not coming back and other available coaches could be a downgrade.
    Joe said himself that if we didn't win the championship it wouldn't change his opinion of Flip...
    It's only human for us 2nd guess coaching decisions because if we were in charge the team would run like well lubed gears :^)
    but I hope we can put the "Fire Flip" thing behind us.. it's simply not gonna happen... maybe the coach can improve with the team... this has been a tremendous learning experience for both sides.
     
  13. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Man I'm sorry but all season long anybody that knows this team, and knows hoops knew that the regular seaon was fools gold. Lose the pts in the paint war all season as well as the board war and it spells disaster in the playoffs.

    While it seems blatantly obvious how bad of a coaching job Flip is doing right now, the next thing that seems to be showing is the teams disdain for Broadway Billups. This dudes head is so big right now that it makes no sense. Last year when we were in a slump the answer was, SHARE THE BALL AND PLAY LIKE A TEAM. Now it's, Chauncey needs to get it going?!?!?? WTF...since when did he turn into Michael Jordan. The best game I ever saw Chauncey play was in the playoffs where he had 20pts and 8 assists and only took 8 shots!!!!!!!!
     
  14. BigDaddy

    BigDaddy First Round Draft Pick

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    Most people thought once we got into the playoffs our defense would lead the way because it's like riding a bike,well it's inconsistent now and we can't or just haven't hung our hat on it for the most part in these playoffs.Flashes of greatness and spurts but nothing like in past years runs.

    Balloonhead Billups is kinda puzzling to me because there is a fine line between cocky,confident and being totally full of yourself.Some of the comments he makes are beyond confidence.Pure speculation but he has done it all if you think about it,All-Star,Finals MVP,the ship...only thing missing is regular season MVP.He'll never get that on this team but if given the green light to go out and be ballhog on another team he just might.

    Joe put this team together from misfit bounce around players who had a chip on their shoulders and someone to prove wrong.Do they still have that big chip or is it a crumb now?Zeke and the boys showed no matter how many they won they wanted that next ship even more and right now this team in this years playoffs isn't showing me that desire night in and night out.
     
  15. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    I guess it had to happen I mean just look at history
    -David Lee Roth and VanHalen
    -Hell all the Temptations
    -Smokey and the Miracles
    -Bobby Brown and New Edition
    There's always the one who gets big headed and forgets all the struggles of what made you who you are......IMHO it's clear that in this situation Chauncey "Broadway" Billups flat out fits the bill. When he signs a record deal in the off-season and leaves his wife for some celebrity chick, those will be the confirming nails in the coffin.
     
  16. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    I used to us this analogy all the time about PG's. The best PG's are conductors, maestros if you will. In the last regime (and it was indeed a regime, with a Napolean to boot) CB was taught to be conductor, to lead and organize to create a thing of beauty known as team. Our Pistons would play together in complete harmony at times hitting you from all angles with CB throwing in back breaking daggers from time to time. This new system takes him away from being a conductor to a soloist, not cool. Duke Ellington may have been the greatest conductor of all time, but he was just a really good-not great, pianist. What if Duke would have wanted to be piano soloist, he would have been successfull, but never noted as one of the greatest musical genius' of all time.
     
  17. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    This is a great post. Anytime you can tie basketball and jazz together, it's brilliant.

    I'm not happy with some of the stuff that's gone down, but we'll see what happens. I definitely get riled up every time someone talks about trading for KG. Minnesota East? No thanks.
     
  18. Dlev59

    Dlev59 Bench Warmer Moderator

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    One thing that struck me in all this is how the starters to a man, except CB has issues with Flip. We all know who had what problems with Flip, however, CB has been fine througout this mess. Why?

    Flip has allowed CB to do basically what he wants when he wants to.

    CB doesn`t want to ruffle Flip`s feathers by disagreeing or challenging him.

    Being mentioned as an MVP candidate has mesmorized Flip and CB into thinking he is better than he actually is, and can do no wrong.

    As someone mentioned before, was Tay dishing out a subtle jab to Chauncey by saying the proper sets were not run?

    Mytake is it was to both CB and Flip. I am very anxious to see how the Pistons respond tonight. Will there be a total mutiny, or will this drama be squashed, so we can go up 3-2 and end this thing.
     
  19. OLD SKOOL HQ

    OLD SKOOL HQ All-Star

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    Let me clear my throat: ..ahem...

    1. For the last two years with LB , all I heard were people getting P-od over our regular season records(54-28) as he prepared us for the playoffs. Everyone talked about homecourt advantage and all we did was make two Finals. This year, we get ' a new coach' with "no playoff history" and we emphasize the "importance' of the "regular season"(64-18). Weve become the RED Wings of the NHL. Did we really need to go 37-5 at the risk of not playing Darko, Arroyo, Delfino and The Bull? Now its biting us in the butt.."literally" because we look spent.
    2. We had to chase no one all year long and I believe the bite has left the dog. We are the one's being chased now and we need to stop , turn and stand our ground. The leader of that would be Flip and when he goes Hak-a-shak, he shows the leadership of a loser.
    that aint our style. Like Sheed said.
    3. Flip hasnt committed to anything he said he'd do all season. He is teh biggest wolf -ticket seller in the league. Play the bench? No...Play and develop Darko? No...Improve the offense? No..

    .....I am just spent ...............
     
  20. brofmfa

    brofmfa Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Great post. Oh gawd, I like your saying. Does the piano always sound like a small thing solved into the background in most of his music ?
     

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