Tuning out Flip??

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Dlev59, May 28, 2006.

  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    HQ, I gotta admit that the guys have looked really lethargic since the 2nd game of the Cleveland series. I can't remember how many times I wrote that homecourt don't mean crap to these guys. They didn't get cheated in Game 7 last year, they ran out of gas and made wonky decisions.

    I'd really like to see more bench than 5 or 8 minutes of the first half. You gotta have at least 40 of a possible 240 minutes played by the bench. Otherwise, you're running guys into the ground. The intensity level is way too high right now to maintain that kind of pace.
  2. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Some fairly revealing stuff in the rags today from the Washington Post & Freep...
    Ben says Flip doesn't spend much time talking about defense... not nearly as much as LB.... now LB was almost solely about defense but that's still disturbing to hear.

    Sheed says him being upset was not related to Flip at all but he couldn't comment because he'd get fined (official related).

    Looking at last years playoffs vs. this year
    04/05 pts scored 90.3... opponents pts 85.6
    05/06 pts scored 93.5... opponents pts 88.7

    There is virtually no difference in points differential
    The coaching change has only shifted the team from defense to offense...anyone surprised by this?
  3. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I have to agree with Sheed on this thing. I cannot ever remember someone winning a game with Hack-A-Shaq. It's a desperation move. Riley is using it pretty wisely, Hack-A-Ben when he is up, because a power team like the Heat that functions so well in the halfcourt benefits from slowing down tempo.

    You almost wonder if this squad is really only capable of around 90~92 points in the playoffs. With a hardass or a more flexible coach. We all know that points scored is not indicative of playing well. Last night, the Suns scored a lot of baskets but they didn't do the little things that win games down the stretch.

    Probably true, but I am sure there are internal fines for conduct detrimental....

    I'm not so much surprised as I wonder what the FG% efficiency of the Heat in 05 vs. 06 is. Bear in mind, the numbers don't cross straight up because I thought the Heat's role players were a better group last year, and played off of Shaq and Wade with a consistent 3 point attack.
  4. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Good posts guys.
    Bup-Bup told these guys get HC because he knew some team could take us to 7 games and he wanted the HCA. The guys took no prisoners all season maybe at a slight bench development penalty. [Frankly, after winning the 'ship to start the next season, I saw no plans to dominate. Just go through the motions]
    So to say anything that sounds like Bup-Bup is corrupt mentally seems wrong.
    What I see is CB unsuccessfully slashing. He might not be reading the floor right.
    Rip isn't money
    Tay has stepped up
    Sheed is hobbled
    BBen is in the fight of his life and getting no help
    Dyess has icycles hanging off his butt
    Delk is he still on the team
    Mo is offically out of his league
    Lenz can only give limited help
    Fino rusted stuck
    Cato and Davis useless and out of their league
    That said I think the guys go out and upset Riles this afternoon
  5. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    We keep hearing that the only change from last year is the coach... wrong answer... one significant difference for this series is EC is not there to "shut down" Shaq like in the past.... choose to ignore it if you wish but the results can't be denied.
  6. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    EC=eastern conference <i:-0]
  7. max

    max All-Star

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    The recent "team identity" articles extend from the Cleveland series.

    Its encouraging in a way to hear the team aknowledging a problem rather than shrigging it off like the Lakers did in 04. All this questioning about Flips emphasis on offense when during the season the players boasted about how great it was to expand their games and reassured us all that they still had the defense and were simply adding to it.

    Strange though that all the comments are comming from the 2 Wallace's. Seem to be calling out the rest of their teammates that they cannot be the 2nd line of defense while guarding Miami's frontcourt.

    We do miss EC as Merc pointed out. Then again how can we expect Davis to be able to do anything at all after sitting on the bench the entire season? Davis is about as ineffective as you can get on Shaq. Only thing he is good for is fouling. Only line of defense we have against Shaq is Ben Wallace and he is not going to be there to bail out the rest of the guys when they let their defensive assignments blow by them.

    Also - good move Flip on hacking Shaq in game 3. Now we cannot call Miami out when they hack Ben. Pretty much game them a green light to hack Ben as much as they want because Flip used it 1st.
  8. Robert Michael

    Robert Michael First Round Draft Pick

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    max- exactly my thought when Flip started hacking Shaq. Foolishness to the highest power.
  9. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Wow, this Hack-A-Ben/Shaq thing could really hurt the ratings... I mean who would want to stick around and watch the game come to a stand still to see who will screw up more at the FT line?
    If it continues look for some new rule changes next year.
  10. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Talk about stealing our ID. Players would rather just lose than revert to hack a shaq. I really think Flip lost some cred with this squad, Flip just doesn't represent toughness. If we're losing how about diagraming a scheme that actually works. I guess the thing that bothers me is that we have no actual PLAN. Whether it worked or not, whether it was executed or not, we all knew what we were trying to do night in and night out, eventually in the playoffs it would come together. Maybe Flip should use the podium to say stuff like, "I never thought I'd have to coach EFFORT!!"......oh oh oh oh use this one, "PASS THE BALL, EXCEPT TO MCDYESS.....CAUSE HE DON'T WANT TO SHOOT ANYWAY!!!" When LB4LB said that about Tay, I think Tay came out in the 2nd half and had like 14pts.

    Can we hire Tubby Smith as an Assistant coach, I bet we wouldn't take many bad shots if you had to look over at the sideline at that infamous scowl every play:mad:
  11. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    But then we'd have some lockerroom dissention :^)

    Yep, it's time to challage these fat cats

    [​IMG]
  12. max

    max All-Star

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    Rob/Kreg. Plus its that much more pressure on Ben to hit his FT's because the only way out is to hit them like Shaq did.

    Now we can't even blast Riley when he does it. Real nice going there Flip. I would say that move to hack Shaq shocked me just as much as anything else so far this post-season. After all the grief we have given other teams in the press for doing it.
  13. Milo Riano

    Milo Riano Second Round Draft Pick

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  14. LanierFan

    LanierFan Bench Warmer

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    Piling on Flip is an easy way for some of you guys to hide from the unpleasant truth: This team and THESE PLAYERS have lost their guts. Period. They had things exactly the way they wanted them this year, and they're losing. All season they said that the coach really didn't matter, and now that they're getting their cans kicked the coach does matter.

    Official results: We are punk-ass %%%%%es. You can figure out the censored parts by opening your eyes.
  15. anakin

    anakin First Round Draft Pick

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  16. Dlev59

    Dlev59 Bench Warmer Moderator

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    I agree. Flip is the top punk-ass %%%%%y!!!!!!!!!
  17. anakin

    anakin First Round Draft Pick

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    Why is everyone hanging only Flip? How about the players asking for a players coach because LB was too tough on them and that they can coach themselves? How about the players missing basic defensive assignments like letting wide open looks at 3's? Allowing Wade and party to drive to the basket at will. Davis didn't do that in his brief minutes. How bout the players shooting in the 35% range from the field? How about the missed FT's? They played well in the 3rd qtr last night. Guess Flip told them to pack it in for the 4th. Just like the 4th qtr of Game 3. The players are playing like crap. Not defending Flip but the players are not executing even the basic things. There has to be some level of team accountability. Flip is not the only goat.


    Maybe the truth is that the team is not as talented as we think and LB was a BIG difference maker who was able to put it all together.
  18. Tally

    Tally First Round Draft Pick

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    Either that, or they are not as good as they were. They have played almost 200 games since winning the title 2 years ago. Wear and tear being what they are to an NBA players body, these guys look like they have aged 10 human years in two NBA years.

    Also, you touched on the inmates running the asylum thing. That is why either Flip or a starter or two needs to go. It's tough to imagine Flip running this same 5 next year after getting shoved under the bus by Ben Wallace.
  19. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    I'm buying most of this (except LB was the difference)...
    The defense is getting too much ink... the major problem is on the offensive side... they're giving up two less points than they did during the regular season (64 W's) against three of the top scoring teams in the NBA.
    The focus needs to shift to the inept offense where they're scoring 4 less pts per game.... Is that something that LB would help with?

    Absolutely agree with Terry Foster that the blame needs to be placed sqaurely on the players (and some on the coach)...

    The other possiblility that is mostly being ignored is that the Heat are simply the more talented team right now... what magical defense do we have to keep Shaq from bullying his way down low... and what shot blocker is going to jump 48" to block the human contorsionist (DWade)?
    Our team lacks footspeed on the perimiter and talented size down low.... you could say Sheed is that talent... but any player that shows this once every 4 or 5 games does not receive a vote of confidence....
    they tried to go down low almost every possesion in the first half only to be rejected.
  20. max

    max All-Star

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    Merc - whats your opinion on the Pistons defense creating a lot of easy offense opps that are just not there anymore?

    Most of it is the shots not falling, too much reliance on the 3-ball. Seems like we used to get a lot of fast breaks on created TO's thats not happening in this series with the exception of game 2.

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