Under the bus again...

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Pwn Toney, Dec 4, 2006.

  1. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    Once again, a loss comes and the players are tossed under the bus. This guy is responsible for nothing:

    Is there any point in time where the coach is responsible for making ANY changes to affect the outcome?

    Source: Win streak finished at 8 - 12/04/06 - The Detroit News Online
  2. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Is it really fair to say he threw the players under the bus? I mean, they just came off of a win streak, right?
    Did Flip give himself credit for those wins or did he give the players the credit. If he gave the players the credit, then I think he has the right to blame them when things go poorly.

    K, that being said I still don't care for the guy at all. I think he doesn't adjust well during the games. Well...he does adjust his collar, but you catch my drift.
  3. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    Possibly "Under the bus again..." overstates the sentiment, but overall it fits my point.

    One of the things that I liked about LB and no one can debate this is that he would say, "You know, I probably should have done 'x'"

    or

    "I really didn't get these guys up to par, that's on me."

    There are never any such admissions from this guy. He has never suggested that HE could have done something better.
  4. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    True dat.
  5. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I agree with that.

    Although I wouldn't call it throwing anyone under the bus, there sure seems to be a lack of accountability/responsibility on Flip's part.
  6. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    O.k., I can't debate whether he said it or not. He did. Time and again. And I suppose were I to be as crass about Larry as you are about Flip, I could observe that in Larry's mind he was the center of the universe, and therefore responsible for all things both good and bad. And that saying things like this was just his way of making the spotlight shine on Larry which is where he felt it ought to shine. All the time. Regardless. But I won't do that. Because I don't think such a POV is warranted about either Larry or Flip.

    I'm pretty happy with winning eight of nine. Especially when the ninth is "coming off six sets of back-to-backs, ...playing their third game in four nights -- in three different cities". I'm o.k. with a coach saying "We didn't play with the sense of purpose that we needed." Because they didn't.

    It probably wasn't a perfectly coached game, but Flip didn't foul a three point shooter and turn a six point winnable game into a ten point head for the buses one with eight minutes left. Maybe the bench could have been used differently or better, but after Dice, the next four guys to play didn't exactly burn it up and I don't buy that you toss #11 and #12 in the middle of a winnable game.

    In any event, I'm o.k. with blasting Flip on specifics about his rotations, his playcalling, etc. I've got a list too. And I'm sorry, but blasting him for not prostrating himself in the post game news conference just doesn't do it for me.
  7. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    True, but he DID keep Prince on the bench WAY longer than warranted and gave extended time to Flip Murray when he clearly was gumming up the works.

    The players ARE on the court. I won't debate that point, but when I see the same stuff on the floor that makes everyone go Ga-Ga over the offense, turn around and make these guys come up short in the playoffs it bugs me.

    Of course no one listened to or gave any credence to these things when they were winning 64 a year ago and no one's going to care this year everytime we run up a win streak against some of the league's have-nots and as long as these guys win a ton of regular season games everyone's thrilled.

    Fine. I just care too much.

    A rolling back of the "passion" is necessary and will be forthcoming.
  8. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Oh lordy don't do that. At least for me, I think we get a lot farther and have more fun doing it if we are talking about why Prince was on the bench during a critical stretch and why Flip didn't get him back into the game rather than if Flip didn't do a sufficient mea culpa in the postgame.

    Or why Sheed and CB played 38+ after twelve games in four nights or whatever it was. And why weren't they switching up defenses more when Charlotte went on their run. Or why someone wasn't in CB's ear as six threes clanked off the iron.
  9. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    Amen! My point exactly.

    Perhaps it needn't present itself in the form of a personal apology, but these are exactly the things I'd like addressed.

    ..not simply a "We sucked tonight." end-all answer.
  10. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    If The Low's TV isn't broken (from projectile foreign objects), he's really not that cranked up. Especially when he was mincing around his apartment this morning in bunny slippers and pajamas at 10 AM. :pound:
  11. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Not to belabour the point, but this...

    Davis rejoins teammates - 12/04/06 - The Detroit News Online
    Flip is asking for a fine making comments like that about the refs but he's got Sheed's back.
  12. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    What I'd like to see if the team struggles for a while in a game in the effort department is to empty the bench. I'm sure our guys will make a ton of mistakes but hey, if you can't bring the effort the coach will get someone who can.

    At half time you can try to get these guys to bring it and give the starters another shake.
  13. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Agree. I suspect there isn’t anything more embarrassing for the guys on the court than seeing a five man unit standing at the scorer’s table.


    My problem with Flip’s rotations is using the starters for the whole first and third quarters. (Except for the obligatory Nazr benching after the second foul.) If you forego the five man switch option and try to work the bench in, you’re quite limited in how you can do it. And I think you end up with a higher mix of bench to starters than you need. It really limits you in the fourth, when the starters are coming in with 30 minutes or so already done. If the game is anywhere near close they play more or less the whole fourth and over many games those kind of minutes really start to hurt.

    Coaches on top of the rotations seem to be moving a starter out somewhere between six and eight minutes into the first, then another a couple of minutes after that. By the quarter break you can take one or two more out and bring the first guy back in and still have two or three starters on the floor. Same in the fourth. Gives you a lot more options.

    Too often it seems as if Flip’s hands are tied when it comes to fourth quarter subs, but that’s only because he tied them earlier in the game. (Which you can do if you are an amateur magician.)
  14. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    Oh....You shall pay.....You SHALL PAY!!!!! :granade:
  15. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I didn't see the T in question, but that sounds REALLY weak. He got a T for an "And one" motion?!?!?! Wow.
  16. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Second time its happened this season. The ref is a punk.
  17. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    LB has said more negative things about his players publicly... that was one of the bigger complaints about him on the News board... "shouldn't have to coach effort"... "Don't pass it to Tayshaun he doesn't want it"
    there are several more if you'd like to see them.

    I do agree that it woud be nice for Fip to own up to his short comings.
  18. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    I don't deny that. As a matter of fact, I actually preferred it. If the media asks a specific question, they get a specific answer. I hate the game coaches play whey they speak in cliches and try to sugar coat what's going on.

    The problem came from the loudest whiners who tried to pretend that LB NEVER said anything to the guy in question ALL SEASON LONG. It's like they never had practice or games or huddles where LB could have said any of these things. When in fact, these things usually happened as a result of Brown repeating himself over and over with no response/sign of change from the player.

    Does anyone really think that LB spent all his practices never telling a guy the very things that he finally has to come clean and tell the media, "Look, I've said it 100 times, he's not doing it."?
  19. BigDaddy

    BigDaddy First Round Draft Pick

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    From what I've read and heard he never told Darko what was expected of him.:pound: Sorry he creeps into every thread I had to.
  20. max

    max All-Star

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    I never really thought much of it. Just took "we" to mean himself and the team. He also says we when they win as well. Sounds like any other coach to me. Some coaches don't like revealing everything in press conferences. I think Carlisle was the same way.

    I at least have not heard of the players complaining about Flips post-games like they did LB's. LB had to throw a few compliments just to avoid a team riot with the way he used to blast his players.

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