Urgh Dumars....

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by roscoe36, Nov 22, 2006.

  1. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    Either Dumars got lucky or is a good value buyer. What we have is a situation where you don't have the same leeway or flexibility that he had in the past. He's having problems maintaining that success.
     
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Thank you my friend! :)

    Nice to see you in chat tonight!
     
  3. max

    max All-Star

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    Actually Hill originally agreed to sign with the Magic for less money. It was oinly after the sign/trade that the Magic were able to pay the same that the Pistons were offering.

    I would not worry about this guys. Billups will be overpayed. Its going to happen. With the Ben Wallace debacle they are going to keep Billups at all costs. Would it really be that bad? They can make up that extra 3-4 with what they are saving with Murry over Arroyo and cases like that. Besides PG's do not grow on trees. Its a very difficult and important position to staff.
     
  4. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    WTF? What is Joe thinking talking max deal in the press?

    I just can't believe Joe is that dumb, which tells me a sign and trade is coming.

    Why on earth would Joe tip his hand that he's willing to go max, unless he's trying to drive up CBs price?

    The only other thing I can think of is that Joe is 100% serious and that he has already made up his mind to go max with CB because he can't afford to let another all-star starter walk. He's willing to eat a bit more salary to ensure that he's leaving nothing to chance.
     
  5. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    i think CB stays and that Joe pays him, but that it won't require a maximum contract. PGs don't decline as quickly as Cs, especially when Chauncey's game has nothing to do with speed already. it's hard to find a really good point guard and it's the most important position on the team.
     
  6. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    ...one bad move away from me wondering if Joe Dumars was abducted by aliens after the 2004 Championship. This must be a mindless clone.
     
  7. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    The 'Micro Rule' sounds like the ultimate definition of a salary cap...I like it. The players are over paid, as are the owners...but we fans are the ones that keep the feeding-frenzy alive for them. food4thot
     
  8. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    I recall them being over the hard cap by accident. The BRI was less than the projections that year.... We went over the Lux threshold by 800K (or Darvin Hams salary)... this was not a case of Mr. D saying tax be damned.
     
  9. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    If I'm CB's agent, and I've already heard the GM say that he's willing to go max (or very close), then thats exactly what I'm holding out for.
     
  10. max

    max All-Star

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    I agree. Its not going to be 17mil/yr. Max deal is thrown out there to mean its going to be a lot. I would guess around 13-15mil/yr.

    Its going to be overpaying but I think they have to do it. Every so often you are going to have to over pay to keep someone. I am not asking to go out and break the bank and every free agent fad out there. Just keep the guy that has been your MVP for the past few seasons.
     
  11. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    FYI, Billups has made approx. $40 million in salary over his 10 seasons.

    Just a point of reference....
     
  12. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I think his new nickname should be Joe Duh.
     
  13. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    I see I post with a lot of people that don't have minds of their own!
    Thanks, Warts and Max for showing some wisdom in your post.
    ...Just because your KCM lures you down a "Dumars is a bingbat" road does mean you should follow!
    Is JD as unreliable as Flip about what he says and what he does?
    I think what JD is doing is telling the other GMs "hands off."
    I think CB wants respect but will take less to stay here. Is agent will do his job in throwing out diversions about dollars and suitors. But don't listen.
    .......Now wouldn't it be nice to have the star treatment which a big contract brings for one of our players? If you as much as give CB a dirty look when he drives to the hole we get a foul call?

    :hoops:
     
  14. Winless Wonders

    Winless Wonders Starter Forum Donor

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    If money is not a factor then the deal could be worked out now during the season without going to Free Agency. Lebron, Mello, Bosh and Wade all re-uped their contracts with out going to Free Agency. Lebron by resigning with the Cavs probably left like 30mill to 50 mill a year in endorsement money on the table.

    As for the star treatment coming along with a player getting paid big bucks. I have to disagree with your view. There are plenty of over paid slugs playing right now in the NBA. Just because you bring a fat pay check home does not mean you suddenly are going to be on David Stern's X-mas list. Unless you are a media and ratings darling you will get a lump of coal from David Stern in your stocking.
     
  15. max

    max All-Star

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    I agree. This thread took one small blip from a Dumars interview and totally ran away with it. Its no big secret that CB will be a hot commodity next summer.

    Own minds is a bit harsh but there is a culture amounst us to look for things to knock.
     
  16. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Those were restricted FAs. The Pistons cannot re-negotiate with Billups until he declares for Unrestricted Free Agency July 1st.

    This is totally true. I think people over-estimate the "superstar" bit. The NBA has at most 10 superstars and there are definitely upper and lower echelons within that group. Vince Carter does not get Dwyane Wade calls. But he does get more calls than the average player.
     
  17. aurora

    aurora Bench Warmer

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    Does Ben's leaving and Chauncey's contract year mean that Chauncey now will be the face of the Detroit Pistons franchise? Sigh.

    The game commentators are gushing about "Mr. Big Shot" through every game. The collateral damage of Ben's exit is that the hypespin is going to be "all Chauncey all the time" as the sports media struggles to find a storyline and compelling personality to replace Ben. I really don't like Chauncey inheriting that dubious crown, because it seems to me that all that off-court attention does not help him play well.

    I do agree that he represents the FlipBall Pistons well. But I don't want the FlipBall Pistons. I'd rather have Chauncey leave and have Rip and Tay be the heirs apparent to the franchise MVP title. I'm ready for the total rebuild Joe. Go for it.
     
  18. Winless Wonders

    Winless Wonders Starter Forum Donor

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    Roscoe

    I thought teams could tear up an exisiting contract and draft a new one? I thought Shaq reworked his contract to provide more cap space? Maybe I am thinking about Football. You see QB's getting there contracts reworked all the time with 3 or 4 years left on there current deals to give them more money.
     
  19. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    There is another side to this. In the last chat, it occured to me that Billups may be the second most talented, or even the most talented player on the team.

    He's coasted at times, but with Ben gone, this is the season to establish his leadership (from the front) by setting an example every night.

    I'd like to see where his level of play and consistency is after the All-Star game. If it is relatively high, and the Pistons can build towards a 4th seed or better, then it makes sense to spend some money. The fallout that concerns me is when CB is 34 or 35. Max deals are not just high dollar, they are long term.

    The big concern is that Dumars was good before Sheed, and a genius after. Pulling in Mike James and the ensuing chemistry with Lindsey was KEY to that deal looking like one of the most pivotal in the last decade. If you take away the Sheed trade, and just judge the last 2 years, it's hard to say Dumars is a top 5 GM.

    After the upcoming draft and free agent period, we'll have a better grip on how good Joe really is. And a large part of that is contingent on how Billups plays, and what he can be re-signed for because we all know, there really will be no replacement on the market.
     
  20. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    You may be right but don't go ArmyG on us.
    ...WW, I would be happy with just a couple at crucile times.:sssh:
    ...Max, what about the Darthians, do they have their own minds? Or did Tate suck their brains to create some kind of Darth army machine?
     

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