Washington Nov 1 2008

Discussion in 'November 2008' started by roscoe36, Oct 30, 2008.

  1. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    15,957
    Likes Received:
    3,897
    Location:
    Michigan
    I thought Kwame Brown should have seen at least a couple of minutes in the 2nd half.
     
  2. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    4,504
    Likes Received:
    645
    Location:
    Flint
    Bench scores 55. Starters scored 62. Lot of points. We gave up a lot too.


    Herrmann helped give up a lot of those points. He was out there as Washington began there 17-0 run on us. Hard to see since its lack of defensive rotation, and lack of speed on transition D - but its there none the less. (Not that he also did not get scored on directly often enough) Still, Herrmann knocked down 3 triples, several other shots, and made some nice passes. Herrmann will put the ball down and go to the basket if you come out to challenge his shot. In contrast to Dyess being out there, playing poor defense, and missing most of his outside jumpers, I will take Herrmann.


    In the first half, we saw Curry seemingly clam up, and go back to our starting unit from last year. Never worked last year, did not work tonight. In the second half - he used Herrmann as the power forward down the stretch to play with the starters and it worked. Got to credit Curry for trying a different route. Nice to be 2-0.


    Billups had a very nice floor game, especially in the 1st half as we took a pair of 17 point leads. I think it only got down to 10 after the first 17 point lead.


    When we had the first 17 point lead, with about 4 minutes to go in the first quarter, Curry made two substitutions. Stuckey came in for Rip, Kwame came in for Sheed. This unit did not seem to click. Stuckey did not do any of his drives to the basket at this time. We lost some of the lead.


    Afflalo, Stuckey, Dyess, Kwame, and Herrmann started the 2nd quarter. Nick Young was proving too quick for Afflalo to defend, and Afflalo ended up having a just a short stint there - not playing in the 2nd half.


    Stuckey was in foul trouble, but he managed to score quite a lot by simply driving to the basket, rising up and shooting over people. I think he made all his free throws too.


    Jason Maxiell had a pretty good game, scoring quite a bit inside, making several free throws without a miss, and hitting one outside shot. He played most of the 1st quarter as Amir got into quick foul trouble.


    Rip hit a whole lot of shots. Got out of control taking the ball inside here and there - helping Washington beat us very badly in points off turns. I still say he has to keep taking the ball inside - and learn how to do it without giving the ball up.


    Tay mostly just played D in this one, though he did do some scoring in the 2nd half.


    Sheed was pretty awesome, scoring from the outside, but also around the basket while collecting about a dozen boards. And of course, as usual playing great D, swatting several shots.


    Dyess did spend some time getting under the basket. It was not all outside jumpers (he actually hit one of them.) In my opinion, his penchant for outside shooting helped Washington get that 17-0 run.


    Amir did not play a whole lot, picking up 5 fouls in short minutes. He was plus while out there, as the team got good starts in both halves. An offensive rebound putback was his highlight.


    Kwame impressed with a couple of drives and finishes at the basket - drives Washington did not expect at all. Kwame also hit a short jumper and got good position inside once for an easy hoop vs. Blatche. Still, no 2nd half minutes for Kwame. He did play into the 2nd quarter this time though, getting maybe 8 minutes in all.


    Eleven players played. Still, Rip played a lot of minutes, staying out there for the whole 3rd quarter and then well into the 2nd quarter. I believe we then saw Tay play a bit of shooting guard. (Stuckey, Tay, Herrmann, JMAX, Sheed is the unit I believe was out there for a bit while Rip rested.)


    Of note, the guy we could have had instead of Stuckey, Nick Young, scored 23 and looked pretty darn good out there. But Stuckey is a point guard, which has great value in itself, and Stuckey did a lot of impressive scoring himself tonight.
     
  3. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,787
    Likes Received:
    2,621
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    Nice leecap thanks!

    Pizza showed up late, I got a big discount, Mom called me and told me the story of how it went down at the hospital on my first bday.

    Great group in chat, props to Dre for the tip!
     
  4. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    12,991
    Likes Received:
    1,942
    Location:
    Rancho Cucamonga, CA
    Both teams shot well with the Wiz at 51.9% and the Pistons with 53.2%.

    The 55 points from the bench was spot on, and with Fan Fav Fabio leading the way, we can only hope that MC does not forget about him and leaves him glued to the bench, when we play the big guys. For someone to be the moist mvp game

    Our defense was suspect and will come back to haunt us if Curry does not come up with some new schemes. Somebody needs to send him the Celtic on Kobe video circulating around here. :heh:. Can't imagine we are that bad when Amir is sitting, but if it is, then he needs to try to avoid the silly fouls...yep Stucco too.

    The other issue is the Turnovers > Rip has 8 in two games??:gaah:
     
  5. Ozarkruffrider

    Ozarkruffrider First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    949
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Missouri
    Fabio was Fabiolous!
     
  6. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    12,991
    Likes Received:
    1,942
    Location:
    Rancho Cucamonga, CA
    I see that I did not finish my sentence about Fabio....His plus/minus was an astounding zero.....and yet he was the MVP of the game....:smoke06:

    Ok let me give some credit to Sheed to 17 pts, 12 boards and 6 blocks
     
  7. RipBillupsRJC

    RipBillupsRJC Second Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2006
    Messages:
    442
    Likes Received:
    0
    Refs absolutely hosed us when it came to manning up on Jamison. Amir got called for three fouls in about two minutes in the first quarter on tiny body bumps. DeShawn Stevenson is a flopper.
     
  8. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    May 28, 2006
    Messages:
    3,999
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's funny b/c we actually are that bad when he goes out of the game. And it doesn't help that Dice's defense has gone from bad to very bad.

    This game was fun to watch. Walter going nuts covered it up, but your right the defense is not up to par at all. AA deserves more run. The rotations have been better in terms of the fact that the bench actually plays, but are still in need of some tweaking.

    I'm scared that Curry is going to fall in love with Hermann and while he deserves PT, his defense is not very good at all. He gives the illusion of doing something b/c of his flurry of activity. His clutch shooting however is very welcome. I just hope Curry can find that balance, and that it doesn't come at the expense of the PT of our better defenders.

    The real test will be against BOS, and i hope by then we've nailed down a big rotation. It does seem a little bit too crowded.

    Agreed. And i really hope these "rookie" calls stops once they get more familiar with him.
     
  9. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,901
    Likes Received:
    860
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    Everyone got done in by the 17-0 run, but it was the lackadaisacal play of the starters in the 2nd qtr that really did us in, too many TO's and silly passes, also Jamison, Butler and Young (3 scorers) hit some tough 'A' shots.

    Gotta love Curry in the post-game riding the starters about how they enter the 2nd qtrs, he is not pleased about how lazily they re-enter the game, he said that they need to be ready to come in and play tough after they sit, Curry said he doesn't care if they have to put 5 bikes behind the bench for guys to get ready :pound:but that this is not acceptable. Who knew Lee's theory on Bloodflow, held weight :confused:.

    Props to coach Curry for riding Hot Hand Herrmann, he's doing a good job. Once again 11 guys played and 11 guys contributed, he's giving every player a chance to find out if it's their night.
     
  10. Pistons Lover

    Pistons Lover First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    648
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    D-Town, MI
    Watching this game, I only had a problem with our turnovers, offense, defense, and the refs calling straight :swear2:!!! Also I had that Amir got into early foul trouble and that our starters got us into a whole. Our bench was good and Herrm was :ill: in a good way tho lol
     
  11. professor

    professor Bench Warmer Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2005
    Messages:
    1,030
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Oberlin
    didn't see the game, but read the espn recap as well as the posts here.

    in the espn recap, there was a lot made of washington "going small" (and hence of herrmann getting more playing time). I get what "going small" means and I've got no problem with how it worked out in this game. But it did raise a question I'm pondering and would like some input on, to wit:

    Why do you have to go small when your opponent goes small? Why can't you, say, go BIG when your opponent goes small, and so make them go BIG too? It makes it seem like small trumps all. Like there's no other way to respond to a team going small except by going small yourself. But why not go big and just lumber smash steamroll over those fast little waterbug guys?

    And does it work the other way around? If our opponent "goes big", do we also have to go big? Or are we allowed to foil them by "going small" and force them to retract their "going big" in favor of matching our "going small"?

    :confused:

    thanks. sometimes i get confused (it could also be the jameson's).
     
  12. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,901
    Likes Received:
    860
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    Herrmann was fine on defense tonight, stop buying into Lee's hype. Herrmann did an admirable job of denying Caron Butler the ball, nobody not named Kobe can stop that guy one on one. Young, Jamison and Butler have the ability to hit shots with a hand in the face and that's what happened tonight. The biggest defensive disappointment of the night was from the point guards lack of D on Juan Dixon during the Wash runS.
     
  13. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    May 28, 2006
    Messages:
    3,999
    Likes Received:
    0
    Honestly, the only thing Lee's post made me do was pay closer attention and unfortunately, he really is really slow laterally, and in the rotations. Maybe b/c i'm used to watching AA who i shouldn't be comparing him to.

    I actually don't think Stuckey's very good defensively either at this point, but it doesn't bother me that much b/c i see all the tools there, and chalk it up to his youth.

    I love Hermann's shooting ability. I just don't think he's going to be of any use on defense against the top/mid SF's.

    I wish more teams actually did that. It makes much more sense.
     
  14. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    12,991
    Likes Received:
    1,942
    Location:
    Rancho Cucamonga, CA
    Agree that Curry is letting everyone play, but if he wants those starters to come in with some emotion, then he should probably show some himself. Get up off that bench and yell at those damn refs..:gaah:. If you don't show some balz in dealing with them refs, then we will be getting hosed all season....

    Flip didn't have a chair to sit in the past 3 seasons..he just twitch up and down the sidelines, but Curry has one and all he does is sit in it smelling his hand....:confused:
     
  15. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,695
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    I agree on both points. What I can't tell is if the problem is the trap up front on D or the help behind it. I am guessing it is the help behind it. Watching that C's video that is up it made me long for the LB days with the defense on a string. They got to get that back. Their ball movement is good, the TO's will drop.

    It has taken me 2 games to say MC is a better coach than Flip. MC did give Kwame the Flip treatment tonight, though.
     
  16. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,228
    Likes Received:
    219
    Hermann helped make the starting unit flow on offense. A very good sign. He passes, drives to the hoop and can hit shots. The old starting unit is that: "old" and will not get us where we want to go. So Curry needs to find ways to integrate the youth with the starters in different mixes.

    Kwame did some damage. He is not an offensive option but he showed with that Laker/Phoenix playoffs, he can do damage if you guard him with a small.

    Amir's fouls and Stuckeys are a problem. They create an early bonus that will hurt us against good teams. The coaches must intervene.

    Yes, Dre, the defense as a unit was poor. Good individual plays but how many easy buckets did we give up? Way too many. Billips is slow up top so we need sharp rotations. We got burned so easily on that pick and roll just before the 3rd quarter.
     
  17. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Team Captain 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    2,011
    Likes Received:
    134
    Location:
    Vienna
    I share your opinion. I've never understood this and it doesn't make sense. If going small can be responded only by going small yourself, the Suns would've won the shipt when they played the starting line- up of Kidd, Kevin Johnson and Rex Chapman while Danny Manning played as C.
     
  18. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    4,504
    Likes Received:
    645
    Location:
    Flint
    Herrmann did a lot better in the 2nd half, when played as a power forward, and guarding Songalia, someone who he can 1)keep up with and 2) needs someone on him at all times since he can shoot the outside shot. So all Herrmann had to do basically was keep up with the slow Songalia. Sure, he still could not do a thing on transition D, but at least most of the time Herrmann had a purpose on defense.

    In the 1st half? What we saw there is Washington go on a 17-0 run, most of which was while Herrmann was in the game playing small forward.

    So here is something that might work: play Herrmann only as a power forward, and have him directly take away minutes from Dyess. This is what worked last night in the 2nd half. Some nights, maybe the other team goes too big, and Dyess is needed.
     
  19. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    15,957
    Likes Received:
    3,897
    Location:
    Michigan
    Actually, Herrmann was only in for the first half (9-0 run) of the 17-0 run and then was replaced by Prince. Rasheed, McDyess, Stuckey/Billups, and Hamilton were also in the game.

    Turnovers (Rasheed, Stuckey, Billups, Hamilton) were the main cause of the 17-0 run, not Herrmann's defense.
     
  20. discotom

    discotom First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2008
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    0
    Because small creates more open shots. Generally your 'small' players are better shooters and faster. they can move quickly and pass the ball a lot to find the open man. Not to mention on the defensive end smaller players will disallow any fastbreaks and cause more steals. Even matchups are key.

    As for the game, I have been a support of Amir's since he was drafted and we saw his upside...but he still looks way to young out there. He looks like he is deferring to the other starters too much. I hope that Kwame's statement about MC letting them play hard in practice is the key to the fouling problem. There is no excuse for the 5 fouls with no other stats to support it.
     

Share This Page