Home Washington Wizards Monday, December 30, 2013

Discussion in 'December 2013' started by roscoe36, Oct 21, 2013.

  1. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    A fairer question to ask might be what kind of half court offense can you run with this group? Monroe and Smith, as you said, either won't or shouldn't shoot. Drummond isn't a threat. Jennings and Smith are crazy. KCP is a 3 and D guy.
     
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Datome is a cheap option, and again, we don't play him. I could understand sitting him if we were sure he is a scrub, but we're haven't seen enough of him to know that.

    Frustrating.
     
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  3. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Here is how many times each player on our team had a game where they were worst on the team in +/- (in the event of ties, I went with the guy who played fewer minutes... also I somehow missed 1 game):

    9 times: Drummond
    3 times: Pope
    2 times: Smith, Monroe, Jennings, Billups, Bynum, Jerebko, Stuckey
    1 time: Singler, Jorts, Datome, Siva, Villanueva
    0 times: Mitchell


    Drummond has been severely negative in our last 3 games and 4 of the last 5:
    -20
    -16
    -27
    -21

    -63 in the last 3 alone. Think about that. Nobody else on the team has been worst more than 3 times and Drummond has done it 3 times in a row. Red flag.

    To me, he looked tired tonight... despite his gaudy stats. He wasn't helping. He wasn't harassing guards needlessly like usual. No P&Rs. The coach might want to try scaling back his minutes a bit since this is his first year logging starter minutes. Might be hitting the rookie wall to a minor degree.

    Our 2 best wins of the year (Miami and Indiana) came with Dre playing 22:37 and 20:42. Except for the fouling out part against MIA, both were very productive games for him with limited PT.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2013
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  4. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Like I have said before, this team which looks great every three games or so and has a chance for a 3rd -6th seed if they can play smart with discipline and put a hand in the opposing players face and challenge 75% of their shots instead on 25%......but since I don't see that happening with the current makeup, we need a couple of players swapped before the trading deadline. Not sure if anyone wants who we got, so it will have to be a team going no where fast that is playing it worst than we are doing and need to dump a player to assure themselves of one of those 5-6 blue chip lotto picks!

    Our taunted big front line is getting its points and boards, but they are inconsistent at the FT line and letting the other teams get whatever they want at the wrong time in the 4th.
     
  5. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    • We are super thin at the guard spot. We haven't had our guards healthy all year. First our starting PG goes down, then our legit backups so we were left with Siva as the only backup. The backups come back- rusty and hobbled....and our 15ppg SG goes down. Our best SF is Singler.....we are in desperate need of a SG and/or SF that can handle the rock and shoot. We've looked terrible ever since Stuckey hurt his shoulder, it's not that I think that we desperately need Stuckey, but we desperately need what he does because we don't have another perimeter player who can do it. I wouldn't be against seeing how Singler plays in the 4th qtr with the starters until Stuckey gets healthy.

    Tonight's 4th qtr was just embarrassing, we missed a ton of layups and wide open jump shots. Can't do that and expect to win.
     
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  6. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'm sure Gores wants to make the playoffs, but I can't help wondering why that should matter to us. If we make the playoffs, it's only because the East is historically weak (except for the top 2). We would lose a 1st round series to the Wizards even if we were playing well- like tonight. I'm much more concerned with the direction here than playing 85 games instead of 82.

    By Joe's admission, there is no grand plan unfolding here. He's just random thrusting.

    I understand his point about Monroe and Drummond... but Smith? There is absolutely no rule that says that you take the best FA available, even if they don't fit your plan. In fact, you don't even take them, you outbid everybody else to get them. And how exactly has he built the team around Smith?

    I was not a critic of the Smith signing, but that was when I believed there was a strategy behind it. To quote Walter: "I mean, say what you want about the tenets of national Socialism, Dude. At least it's an ethos."
     
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  7. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    I think Monroe and Josh could ( and should) shoot those open 12 footers in the 4th quarter when the entire defense sags like that but the direction from the bench is a "tunnel vision" take it down low. The Piston beat writer (I think in the Detroit News) caught this. The players have their limitations but the continual 4th quarter collapses cannot all be put on the players. The lack of direction of the offense, of the defense, of the lack of motivation at times, of simple things like out of bounds plays, cannot all be put on the players. Washington scores like the first 8 or 10 points in the 4th quarter and Kelser (almost as a cover) starts to hint at a defensive issue presumably because the lead was gone. The Pistons had 1 basket and 2 free throws just before the 5;00 mark left in the 4th quarter. What NBA team can win with that offensive production? The team was disjointed and helter skelter.

    This young team needs more direction that has been given to it.
     
  8. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Why do we run so few plays to get lobs to Drummond? LB ran more lob plays for Ben Wallace and he wasn't 1/10th the finisher.

    Is is that opponents are on the lookout for it and close it off? Jennings never seems to use Dre's picks even for his own gain. He just goes the opposite way.
     
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  9. The Panda

    The Panda Garbage Post All Star Forum Donor

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    Ok. Deep breath. Relax.

    We need Stuckey back. Our second unit looks shooooocking on offense without him.
     
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  10. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    After 33 games, how many of you actually expected more than 14 wins? Not me. Too many unknowns and unproven elements to this squad, particularly in the starting lineup. I'm not certain given our personnel that anything other than a sub-.500 season should even be expected at this point.

    The home record is pretty disappointing, that's for sure. They have been terrible in the fourth stanza it seems as well. Not sure what they are thinking about during crunch time. The term "Pistons DNA" does not appear to apply to them. Probably because they have a coach that doesn't understand it either.

    Listen, that's what you get when you hire a re-tread as a coach. The "Mo" in Maurice doesn't stand for "motivation." Look at the Celtics. Most expected a horrible season from them, but they took a chance and hired what looks to be a decent coach, even if he didn't have NBA experience.
     
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  11. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    We attempted 51 shots in the first half and only 31 in the 2nd half. 6 more turnovers and 10 fewer offensive rebounds accounts for most of it. 1 more FT, so the other 4 missing shots have to be due to pace, missing possessions at quarter ends, etc.

    In the 4th quarter, when we only scored 12 points, here was how it happened:

    Pope: 0-1 (he missed a 3 point attempt)
    Drummond: 1-1 (offensive rebound and one handed dunk). 1 tov.
    Smith: 1-6 + 2-2 from the FT line. 1 tov. He played the entire quarter.
    Jennings: 1-6 + 0-1 from the FT line. 1 ast to 2 tovs.
    Monroe: 0-1 + 2-2 from the FT line.
    Singler: 0-0. + 1-2 from the FT line.
    Billups: 0-0. 1 tov.
    Bynum: 0-0.

    So, Jennings + Smith were 2-12 with 3 tovs
    The rest of the guys were 1-3 with 2 tovs.

    In a game where Jennings had 13 assists through 3 quarters, he went into chuck mode in the 4th.


    For the game, our bench scored 13 points on 9 FGA. If our starters would have been that efficient, we would have ended up with 118 points. The bench really didn't play very much in this game and hardly took any shots. Singler was the only one that made a shot and he was 4-5 with a 3-point make. Bynum didn't even get a shot off in 9 minutes. Bench unit had 3 ast and 3 tov for the game and they only played 22% of the total available minutes compared to 32% for Washington.
     
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  12. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    I like the way you summarized the situation. I guess my view is that this team should not be a sub-.500 team and with a stronger direction, some of these "give away" games (Lakers, Charlotte, Washington, etc.) would have been won.

    But the contrary view carries a lot of weight--can't deny the reality. Maybe this team is about where it is at--sub.500. But then the question becomes, if that is true, how is it corrected? This is not suppose to be a lottery year. How long can a team continue to lose? This is not the old Clippers, is it. Does the blame lie with Joe or is some of it on the coach? Or, if it is the players, is it the new players, Josh and Jennings, or the youth, etc.

    You can only get better quicker if you understand the problem. The beat writers in the Detroit News and the Detroit Free Press are starting to hint at the problems.

    I like what Josh and Jennings are bringing in general. Monroe is a puzzle. Maybe he is not that good? Or, is he still a year or two away? For sure, the team is too thin. For sure it is missing 3 point shooting, etc.

    Again, is the Piston record real or should it be better than it is? At this point, I would say it should be better. But the wins need to come soon or the season will fall by the wayside, I fear.
     
  13. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Lots of effort in this post. I suggest, if you like to analize games so much, do what I do, and record the games, then spend time breaking down the offensive, and defensive plays. For this particular game, take a good look at the defensive plays where we lost our double digit lead to start the fourth quarter. If you take time to do that, I think you will see the real problem. Singler gave up all the points by his lack of defense and rebounding. (And do not forget when looking at this kind of stuff, what strategies is the coach using to hide Singler - like having him, the small forward, go out and check someone on the perimeter - leaving a guard to take his place, in vain of course, on inside defense.)
     
  14. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I record every game. We scored 12 points in the 4th quarter. Misses led to easier opps for washington. Wall went off.

    When ks is on the court this year, we give up 104.2 points per 48. When he's off, we give up 110.7. Efg goes from 49.7% to 52.9%.

    He's also holding his man to low production. 14.4 per against at SF vs 22.2 against for smith at SF. So team D and individual D are drastically better with him. Night and day.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2013
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  15. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    I haven't been able to find any data to support this, but from what I have seen watching the games Jennings doesn't seem to really understand the P&R play. Too many times Smith or Dre would set a good pick and BJ just keeps dribbling, unsure what to do next.
     
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  16. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    He's 77-154 shooting in pnrs this year. .78 ppp and 39.5% shooting.

    His man is 77-154. 0.93 ppp and 50% shooting.

    Needs improvement for sure. On d, I blame our bigs too.
     
  17. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

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    Is it possible that it's not Singler, but these other guys, that are the problem? I mean, if the Pistons are plus with him in the game entering the fourth, and then Cheeks throws in a lineup of Bynum, Billups, Singler, Smith, and Drummond, and they go -9 over the next three minutes, then maybe it's not just Singler, but their terrible backup backcourt. I mean, he was +9 up until then. Bynum and Billups were -10 together in 10 minutes of play.
     
  18. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    Hi Lee,

    Singler is a defensive problem whose offense is not yet good enough (he is a young player) to overcome that.

    But, as far as the game goes, I want to point out that the Pistons scored 1 basket and 2 free throws the first 7 minutes of the 4th quarter. To me, the biggest problem for many of these losses is the lack of a crunch time offense. No team can hold the other in the NBA for 7 minutes.

    I don't think the lack of scoring is all on the players. They appear unsure of themselves and scattered in too many of these 4th quarters. The team needs stronger direction and Joe needs to give this team some depth.
     
  19. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Sure, all of the data says that Singler isn't the problem. Perhaps you need to watch the games 4 or 5 times frame-by-frame.
     
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  20. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Can we get something besides an eye witness account that shows singler to be a poor defender?

    Synergy shows that he's strong in individual play analysis (with human eyes). Team d is better with him. Opponent per is low against him. Not sure how he's giving away the store on a nightly basis and hiding it so well.

    I contend that he and pope are hurting the team by being too selective on offense. Need more pope and singler on offense to stretch the floor, improve overall offensive efficiency and get our half court defense set more often.

    When you have an off the charts ORAT and a sub par PER, it means you're too selective.
     

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