Home Washington Wizards Monday, December 30, 2013

Discussion in 'December 2013' started by roscoe36, Oct 21, 2013.

  1. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    I can't believe that after all of these years you guys actually keep falling for it!!! HILARIOUS!!!!!

    That being said, I think it's clear that we will have to make personnel moves via trade or free agency.
  2. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    The Singer issue is a challenging one. You have to wonder how many other forums or groups of people are blaming Singler for the Pistons defensive lapses. It seems to me the defense bogs down when he is in there, but TaS stats it disproves it and I can go along with that. ....all I can think is that there is one or two players that shouldn't be on the court with him and that is probably what the "eye witness" accounts are. One of them is probably Gigi....the question is who are the other 2?
  3. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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  4. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    According to Lee it's Any and All.
  5. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    There was a play in the 1st 2-3 minutes last night when WAS shot from 15-ish feet. Monroe, Drummond and Gortat were in the paint. Monroe had the best rebounding position in the restricted area. Drummond had the next best maybe a step away from him and Gortat had the worst position a few steps behind him out towards the FT line.

    Instead of boxing Gortat out and ending the possession, Drummond (the instigator) and Monroe box each other out while Gortat walked un-touched towards the hoop and easily laid the rebound in.

    The Pistons do this stuff by the dozens and they can't win because of it. The little things kill these guys.
    del and brofmfa like this.
  6. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    I don't like playing all 3 together at all. But I do believe 2 of 3 should ALWAYS be on the floor together. It's a total waste of our physical advantage anytime 2 of those guys are on the bench sitting next to each other. If we're going to feature Stuckey with the second unit, I'd take Dre out of the 2nd unit so Moose has more PT going a against 2nd string C's and Smoove against 2nd string PF's.

    In crnch time, no way I play all three together.
    brofmfa likes this.
  7. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    So you looked at the stats. Take the time to break down the defensive plays. Should only take five minutes.
  8. pass99

    pass99 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    You have none. That is one of the main reasons they fold in the 4th quarter. This is a squirrelly group. Only two raise their hands as the rest lower theirs as time counts down in the fourth: Jennings has the best talent and position to yell, "I will take it to countdown" (but, should only in the last 2 minutes) and then you have Smith, with his slightly washed IQ, yelling, "No matter what the time and positions look like, I am ever dangerous from 35 ft. (and, there goes that performance!).

    JD needs some quiet and deeper perceptions. Look at the holes, make some jumps in judging talent and then use those incrementals that speak possibilities that solidify added value (starting and the bench needs). Stay away from long contracts and get a coach that can get his bench thinking they are better than the starting five. And under the right circumstances, they are.
  9. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Don't they need to do something like double every time Drummond or Monroe is getting posted also? They're going to give up an open 3 anyway, they might as well double.
  10. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I see a guy who is hustling his butt off.
  11. pass99

    pass99 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    th
    He has gotten a lot of mileage out of being a very smart fellow. One of the main reasons is that the overseas professionals go home to a solid background and into a smaller community that sit around the café tables and have non-narcissistic discussions. It is not his fault.

    Bring him here and the game is different. Forget the communal aspects and expect microscopic concentrations on trivial exhibitions from narcissistic digital social relationships. Besides, what might be coherent from a journalistic microphone introduction (and interpreted rightly) may not translate into the usual guttural grunts that passes for perceptions from procedural talking heads and away from the normative journalistic asides. Won't happen and we will never know this fellow. It is not his fault.

    And, if switch from faults to gaps and back to faults...I see two.

    First, it seems (from the scout book and my observation), that certain aspects have had (surreptitiously, of course) some major physical transplants concerning certain physical externals. This being artificial and generic placements: affecting both his right and left hip. The game in the US is ten times faster than anything outside, because everything in the USA is ten times faster. He can't keep up.

    Second (taking an occurrence physical limitations), this guy can't sky. I mean, I mean, short of high-light reels of the absence from the latter: what do you do with intellect? Out of 500 players, you only can afford 2-3 (maybe) Shane Battier (Shane Battier's contract with the Miami Heat expires in June and his 13th season in the NBA is going to be his last, according to the forward. "In all honesty, this is probably my last year, and so, I'm not saving myself for anything," Shane Battier Stats, News, Videos, Highlights, Pictures, Bio - Miami Heat - ESPN).

    Everyone, a big point here. Begin to understand, not the point of observation, but the deeper recognition of the inversive aspects of irony: the turning of it inward toward the observer. Has the obviousness of this aspect, been squeezed out by the titillation of becoming the last survivor: called an Owner/GM/King/Queen? So many pieces on the move. For the pawn: it is not their fault.
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2014
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  12. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Autopsy of a 4Q collapse:

    1 Det: Drummond commits offensive foul on screen off the ball- turnover.
    1 Was: Singler picked as he chases Webster around 3-point line. Webster drives at Det bigs and scores point blank range. (if KS goes under pick, open 3).
    2D: Josh Smith misses fade away college 3.
    2W: Nene blocked by Drummond.
    3D: Billups commits horrible turnover on cross over dribble.
    3W: WAS fast break missed layup. Seraphin put back score.
    4D: Drummond with awkward post up/ ball poked out of bounds. Inbounds to Bynum with 5 seconds. Forces drive and turns it over.
    4W: Seraphin scores in the post against Smith. Fully contested.
    5D: Smith misses quick hook from the post. Bad shot.
    5W: Porter hits spot up college 3. Pope a little late closing on him after sagging to paint to hedge. Sagged too far and was unnecessary.
    6D: Smith drives to the rim and misses point blank finger roll. Really bad miss.
    6W: Webster hits transition 3 over Pope. (Pope picked him up mid court after Smith miss. Jennings and Singler sprinted to the paint to stop break).
    7D: Jennings misses easy layup... Drummond with a put back dunk.
    7W: Nene misses jump shot, but Pope called for foul on rebound (bad call). Temple with give and go and misses easy layup due to Dre's presence. Dre boards it.
    8D: Jennings dribbles for 20 seconds and misses fully contested fade away.
    8W: Wall misses college 3. Well contested by Jennings.
    9D: Jennings throws half court alley oop pass off the bottom of the backboard. Turnover.
    9W: Wall easily drives to the left and past Jennings to hit floater.
    10D: Monroe misses leaner with right hand from 3 feet.
    10W: Beal misses WIDE open 3 point attempt in transition.
    11D: Monroe passes up open J. Smith desperately drives with low shot clock and draws foul. Hits 2-2.
    11W: Drummond loses Nene in P&R. Nene power jams over Monroe, who was too far under the basket to do much. Highlight of the game for WAS.
    12D: Smith draws double in the post and passes to Jennings. Jennings misses wide open 3 point attempt.
    12W: Webster jukes Smith one on one and hits long 2-pointer (feet on the 3-point line). Not an easy shot. Example of Smith having trouble guarding the arc though.
    13D: Jennings drives, makes, and 1. 0-1 from the line.
    13W: Offensive foul on Seraphin (moving screen).
    14D: Pope misses open 3.
    14W: Seraphin commits offensive foul with off arm on running hook shot.
    15D: Jennings misses contested 3-point attempt (no pass possession/ shoots with 16 seconds left on shot clock).
    15W: Wall drives past Jennings using pick. Drummond picks him up, but Wall fades and easily banks it in from 7 feet. Drum looked a little tired on this one.
    16D: Smith gets ball in post and hits running hook shot.
    16W: Gortat pick and pop. Loses Drummond, but misses open shot from FT extended.
    17D: Smith gets ball in post and misses hook shot.
    17W: Ariza misses transition 3 over Smith. Booker pins Singler and gets quick weakside offensive board. KS breaks up P&R by leaving his man and helping in paint. Beal hits college 3 over Jennings on in bound play.
    18D: Pope passes up 3 late on the clock. Jennings takes contested 3 and misses badly.
    18W: Nene pick and pop. Hits college 3 over sagging Drummond.
    19D: BJ dribbles clock down to 9 and nearly turns it over- deflected OB. Singler drives late on clock and draws foul. 1-2 FTs.
    19W: Nene pump fakes Drummond and draws non shooting foul. In bounded and Nene misses contested shot in the paint.
    20D: Smith gets ball at arc and drives. His dunk attempt is badly blocked by Gortat.
    20W: Wall hits contested one on one jump shot over Jennings.
    21D: Monroe fouled on in bound pass by Nene. 2-2 FTs.
    21W: Wall intentionally fouled by Singler. 2-2.
    22D: Jennings turnover- palming violation.
    22W: Wall intentionally fouled by Jennings. 2-2.
    23D: Smith turns it over on the inbound pass.
    23W: WAS dribbles out the clock with mercy.

    General observations:
    - We stagnated because Jennings is dribbling the clock below 10 and then we are isolating Smith in the post. Most possessions had minimal ball movement.
    - We weren't able to create any transition opportunities and that is where we were successful earlier in the game.
    - Washington was doing a much better job at using screens, P&Rs, and P&pops.

    We are not a good half court team and we played old style post up half court bball in the 4th to our demise. Smith is OK in the post, but nothing special. It shouldn't be our go-to play over and over and over.

    Happy New Years forumites!
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2014
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  13. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    One more observation upon continued reflection. Jennings and Smith are repeatedly in a position where the ball comes back to one of them with under 5 seconds on the clock and the defense fully set. Our offensive design seems really absent. Secondly, other guys have to realize when a possession is breaking down so that they can take a moderately contested shot earlier instead of looking for a bail out from Jennings/Smith. Pope and Monroe were both guilty of being too selective.

    In this game, our defense was adequate in the 4th quarter. WAS hit a lot of contested shots and we avoided fouling them for the most part. D wasn't special, but most of our guys appeared to be intelligently picking when to help and when to stay put.
    brofmfa and lapiston like this.
  14. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    Exactly. And I have been saying this since the Laker game at Staples about 20 games back warning about the problem of no half-court offense only you just said it better. I don't have the Wash. game on tape but my recollection was just that--you can't hold a team in the NBA minute after minute if you yourself don't score. And the Pistons stopped scoring. Right, you can't keep posting Josh time and again. Guys pass up fairly open looks (afraid or told not to shoot) and others jack up shots with less than 5 seconds on the clock as the only option left.

    I want to add something I noticed. The offense is so under wraps in the 4th that I believe both Josh and Monroe passed up open 12 foot shots while the defense sagged only to drive right into the teeth of the defense waiting there for them. Monroe is not a great shooter but in the 4th quarter, if that is what they give you, the bench needs to say shoot it--I trust you.

    Reading the summary, there is almost no pattern to the offensive attack. And what is the approach or orientation to the offense? Jennings is often left out there alone and as such, he can look like a heroe but under those circumstances usually just the opposite.

    Washington made some good offensive plays down the stretch. But if the Pistons score just a little bit, they would have been toast. Sure, as everyone has said, the Piston defense has been poor a lot of the year. But in games like this--and there have been about a half-dozen, it is the offense that prevented the Pistons from winning and having a winning record today.

    One more item, you mention the Billips turnover. It was a key point in how they started their run. Same thing happened with Charlotte. Billips is a champion but his turnovers are hurting the team. And I get the feeling that the bench is a little slow in reacting to the outset of these runs--once that lead was down to about 5 points or so, the team was in panic mode already.
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  15. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    I thought that the ugly Billups was a turning point too. Good point.
  16. brofmfa

    brofmfa Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    I sighed and signed off my nbalp then.
  17. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Was also was basing a big part of their offense on pulling dre out of the paint.
  18. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

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    The problem that the Pistons typically have in the fourth is that their offensive flow stagnates. We all readily agree on that. The question, then, is who is the culprit?

    Let's say they set up a simple PnR at the top of the key, Jennings and Drummond. What are the other guys doing? You have Monroe, Smith, and maybe KCP or Singler in there. The other 2 (guarding KCP/Singler) is probably sagging a little bit, but you can bet that Smith's guy is sagging because they know that if the Pistons' offense is predicated on getting Smith open 3-point looks, opposing coaches are going to like those odds.

    So Drummond sets a mediocre screen, then rolls. Problem is, he's rolling into Monroe's area, because Monroe is not a threat from anywhere on the court but inside, and Drummond's picks (or Monroe's or Smith's) are not good enough to force switches. This is why it feels like Drummond almost NEVER completes a PnR, at least not by my recollection (Bynum has more of a tendency to force things, but he's not in there in the fourth because his defense manages to be worse than Jennings'). So Jennings doesn't turn the corner, and now he's alone back at the top of the key, five or six seconds have ticked off the shot clock, and nobody on his team is near him. He has his wings, one of whom he knows is a terrible gunner, and the play broke down before it even started.

    This is just a simple example, but I think this is why you see the Pistons' offense stagnate so much at the end of these games. They can't run PnRs because defenses have tightened up so they're ineffective. They don't appear to have any set plays, either - whether that's by design or lack of comfort on the players' part with the scheme, I don't know. But they have a tendency to go iso in the fourth, and defenses know how to stop it.

    I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but having all three bigs on the court at once is not working, and will not work unless they set up an offense designed to take advantage of it. Isos for Smith and Jennings don't need Monroe and Drummond on the court to work... in fact, they'd be more effective if the lineup had Smith at center and three other quality three-point shooters, regardless of size; defenses would be forced to keep things honest and it would open things up in the middle for those two to work. It might be terrible defensively, but it's not like the Hydra is anywhere near as effective on D as everyone thought they would be (at least, as effective as what I thought it would be).

    This team has a problem. They have major weaknesses and they don't use their strengths well enough to compensate. When you have Smith and Jennings on the court together, you have two terribly inefficient shooters, both of whom struggle near the hoop when there's anyone there guarding it. In order to balance that sub-par shooting out, you need efficient shooting from their teammates or you need to generate extra "point potentials," in the form of turnovers, free throws, and offensive rebounds. This is why Drummond is so important to the team offensively - he shoots a high percentage and grabs an insane amount of offensive rebounds. But Monroe and KCP/Singler have been inefficient shooters so far, don't get to the line, don't grab offensive rebounds, and, at least in Monroe's case, don't make up for it by lowering PPP on the defensive end.
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  19. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Yup!
  20. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Not that anybody around here cares, but starting Billups and playing him an average of 25 minutes in the Clipper-Grizzly first round match in last years playoffs was part of the reason why the Clipps were eliminated in the first round. Yeah Blake was hurt in the last four games, but Billips was a liability on defense and offense and had a similar turnover in game 6 that led to a big run and game six close out by Memphis.

    I am still wondering why we don't have Lionel Hollins on our bench instead of Mo??
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