We Have Failed Miserably at Developing Young Talent/It Will Come Back to Bite Us

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by armygirl, Nov 10, 2006.

  1. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Sorry friend, got to disagree with you about what triggered Orlando to start winning. Actually, Orlando just kept losing after Darko and Arroyo joined the rotation. It was after Trevor Ariza joined the rotation for Orlando that Orlando took off for that run. Sure, Arroyo and Darko did help. Arroyo ran the point well. Darko defended well and added a bit of scoring punch. But it was the emergence of a very gifted wing player, Ariza, that made everything work for Orlando.
     
  2. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    Sorry, gotta disagree with you there. It was when Carlos and Darko got a few practices and a little PT that the Magic took off. Ariza was a good pickup and will be great, but I still believe that Carlos and Darko did the deed.

    I am glad you are not one of the guys saying that they built that streak by playing teams that were not trying hard, though. That was definitely not the case. Most all of them were either trying to gain in the seedings or trying to make the playoffs at all. It was a legitimate streak and is a good omen for this year.

    Another reason I think DMC was one of the main ingredients in the streak is that not only the media down there but the Magic brass themselves, went from calling Jameer and Dwight the cornerstones of the franchise to including Darko in that group. Not Ariza. Darko.

    We lived winters in FL then and I saw every one of the games, even going to two of them at the arena. DMC got an immediate following. Carlos did even better in that area.
     
  3. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    I think Famar is going to be a good one. Very athletic, high IQ and moves very well. As soon as he starts hitting 15 foot jumpers, it will pick up Kobe and they will be a tough combo on the wings. LA should be 1-2 years away from a finals game.
     
  4. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    We won in '04 BECAUSE we played the young guys. Tayshaun, in his 2nd year played 32 mpg. Okur in his 2nd year played 22 mpg.
     
  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    What young guys did the Heat play last year?
     
  6. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Very interesting point. In 2005, Larry decided he didn't trust in the bench anymore. Why do you think this was the case? The year prior he used the bench ...a bench with young players and won a championship. After Detroit, he gave all of the players an opportunity to play in New York. So, this leads me to believe he just didn't really believe in Darko/Delfino's talent or the rest of the players who ended up being replaced.

    Seems to me the don't invest in the youth paradigm is a Darko/post championship thing.

    Anyone care to chime in on that?
     
  7. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Depends on who is young. In the championship year regular season significant minutes (MPG played) went to...

    Okur (22)
    Corliss (20)
    James (20)
    Hunter (20)
    Cambell (14)

    Okur counts, but otherwise I don't see a lot of youth investment. A bench full of vets might be the best route to the 'ship.
     
  8. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    D Wade.
     
  9. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Well..Prince and Okur are the standouts. Its limited, but its still two players who saw significant playing time and were critical to our championship run.
     
  10. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Oh yeah, duh. I was looking past the top six so I didn't even see Prince.

    Yeah, that Prince guy. He was young.
     
  11. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    bingo. That underscores the entire arguement. Who won? D Wade. Who took us to 7 games? Lebron. Darko wasn't even a role player.

    We don't need a bench full of youth. What we need is to have minutes and roles for the few young kids we have. What we have now is a backlog of underdeveloped players.
     
  12. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    I know Mad Hatter, I am just so frustrated right now about our Pistons, I can't see straight. It's like they don't want it or feel it anymore. I really don't see the intensity.

    It's like they are just simply going through the motions.

    You know it's an old saying "and the young shall lead". At this point I will certainly take a few new guys with fire and desire and a AI type player.
     
  13. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Shame on you Roscoe. The Heat played Gary Payton, he's the youngest guy on the team. He is only 76 in basketball years, LOL.
     
  14. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    Great one, armygirl :pound: :pound: :pound: :hoops: !!!
     
  15. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    And I found out on some broadcast last night, other than Sheed, GP has the highest number of career technical fouls. And is only a dozen or so behind Sheed.

    Let's trade CB for GP and corner the market.
     
  16. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    darko was a champion before both of those 2. maybe if lb had used darko right from the start he would be a media darling too and get calls all the way to the finals like wade gets. it also underscores the difference in oppurtunity that is available around the league besides the pistons.

    wade + haslem. they have been playing since thier rookie seasons. you can win with a young player leading the team. it's also important to have young role players. darko could have been that for us.

    i disagree. if you look at memo's minutes after sheed arrived. you'll see that larry when given the choice between a vet and a young player will choose the vet. in NY lb probably got that message from management to play the youth and that's probably why he took a quick exit cause he don't like being told what to do. if you look at the olympics lb will choose vets over youth.

    lb didn't have time for development he wanted to win a championship and leave. this is what happens when you have a coach that doesn't have a love for the organization. pop develops and phil develops because they plan on being with the organization longer than 1 - 2 years at a time.

    i think most of the reason why lb didn't play the young guys was personal. he didn't play darko because he resented his height and sense of entitlement. he didn't like arroyo and carlos because they cussed him out in spanish. but probably it was more that joe d told him to play some of the young guys and lb played only the vets and didn't care if it made him lose. he's just like a woman you tell him to do something and he won't do it just because you told him to.
     
  17. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    Thats what I was saying!:gun1:
     
  18. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Sheed got more minutes because he was better. I know that's a hard concept for you to understand, but its really quite simple. He played Tayshaun and Memo alot because they were the best on the team at the time. Sheed enters and gets awarded the minutes. It worked. We have a championship to prove it. In New York he was simply trying to get someone to put up a steady performance, so he went through the entire lineup to find a cohesive unit. He was unsuccesful.

    BBalljay, I think this might be another case of you just spouting out opinions without substance. What's Larry's history with playing youth prior to Detroit? Have you researched that? I've never liked your Olympic reference because it makes it seem like it was undeniable that the vets who played in front of the young guys were not as good. Just because you thought they were head in shoulders better doesn't mean that Larry Brown shared your sentiments. Actually the more I read your explanation the more it sounds like you taking events that are as ambiguous as they come and injecting your unobjective spin on it to prove your point. Nothing to see here folks. Same ole same ole.

    I'm pretty sure there was a poll done by the coaches that asked which coach was the best at developing players and Larry Brown was chosen. I'll look it up and show the reference. Anyway, I think I'll go with that line of thinking versus your whole if Larry doesn't think Darko is any good he most be against developing rookie theory. Larry made it obvious that he thought we picked the wrong player. Based on how good the other players have turned out to be from that draft, I can't say I disagree with him.

    BTW, I seriously don't think it has anything about LB not liking Darko's height or Arroyo and Carlos cursing him out in spanish. lmao! Where did you get that from anyway? lmao!
     
  19. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    Motown, there was disrespect from LB toward DMC right from the very beginning. He had disrespect in his tone of voice and especially in his denunciation of him on national television. He called him "that kid on the end of the bench" and although he said that Darko was working hard, still never gave him the chance to earn a damned thing.

    Ben, Sheed, CB, and most of the others at the time were telling about how hard DMC worked but it never got him a thing. So, a teenager became a teenager by rebelling. I don't blame him a bit.

    By showing improvement since he got to Orlando, Darko is proving at least to some of us that had he been given the same opportunities here, he would still be here and we would have more rings.

    Of course, Dyce would not be here, nor would Davis. We would not need them.

    But we could not spare 3 or 5 or 7 minutes a game to make that happen.
     
  20. max

    max All-Star

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    Points well taken on Darko.

    However we still have a young prospect that could even be a center someday in Amir Johnson. So far at this stage Amir is showing more talent and progress than Darko did when he was 19.

    We do run the risk of the same thing happening again. Of course as a 2nd rounder the pressure is not on like it was for Darko but Amir still wants to play more than mop up time and there are soon going to be other teams out there that would give him the PT. Also notable that Amir is on a pretty short contract.
     

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