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Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Lee356, Aug 7, 2009.
We have probably become significantly worse on D since then though.
Our Defence will still suck next year.
So, our stellar defense of last year is going downhill? I'm wondering if we all watched the same team actually play basketball more than 3 times..... SUCK IT UP FAN'S.. You might actually enjoy the game from the middle seats.......
Here is the progression of our defense (points allowed per 100 possessions): 2004- 96 2005- 101 2006- 103 2007- 104 2008- 103 2009- 108 We were amazing in '04. Really good in '05. Top 3 in '06-'08. And we fell off the cliff last year. Even 2004 Ben isn't enough to make us a good defensive team this coming season. 2010 Ben is probably not enough to make much of a dent at all. But he can't possibly make us worse and he provides leadership, which is needed on a team with so many new guys thrown together (who have never cared about D).
That statement is borderline fallacious IMO. As a professional basketball player you play within the system your coach implements. I find it laughable when fans claim to understand plays while simultaneously failing to realize that depending on the player, the same play that would get Tim Duncan a dunk would net Rasheed Wallace a fadeaway three. Meanwhile the opposing offense has to deal with a long rebound fast break opportunity or taking it out of bounds, regardless of what the defenders "care about".
Ben Gordon played for (and butted heads with) Scott Skiles.
So did Ben Wallace....
Lot of the older less deep teams are going to get worn out chasing our guys around all game. I also think the rebounding will improve. Kind of a waste playing D when you miss the rebound.
Skiles was frustrated with Ben Gordon because of his poor shot selection and lack of defense. He felt that he couldn't leave Gordon in the game when they needed a stop. My point is that Ben Gordon has been in situations where he was expected to play defense and where very good defensive systems were in place. He was the weak link. So, if he really cared about defense and tried his best, then we are in trouble. Guess who else played for Skiles and didn't get along wit him. Charlie V. So, yeah, we are building an entire team of Skiles' discards. I wouldn't really care, but it isn't a good sign when a coach who loves defense gets fed up with players. They see them every day in practice and they know what the players are supposed to be doing in the defensive schemes. Maybe it is just ability and not attitude.
I understand your point, but I still wouldn't use getting along with Scott Skiles as an indicator of anything. Scott Skiles skews the analysis. (Say that 5 times fast)
It's not really the getting along with him part. I don't care that he and Ben Wallace clashed over a headband. It's the fact that he's a coach that cares about defense as much as any coach in the league and came to the conclusion that BG and CV are lacking in that area. Can they change their stripes? If they do, it will be through personal improvement and hard work, not a change of scenery. Kuester's defensive system probably will not be as strong as Skiles'. The Ben Wallace that will be playing beside Ben Gordon now will not be as strong as he was back in Chicago. Of course, we could just outscore the opposition. Maybe our offense will be that good.
Glad you liked the post. I was at a party once that was dominated by educated types. It was an interesting mixture, but mostly dominated by administrative credentials, with some aggressive women representing the HS levels that were extremely frustrated on not being able to connect with their male students. I mentioned to this group, that perhaps what was needed, was to understand the rights of passage (of which there are none): to reach out for an associated occurrence that might substitute for this absence. The book I suggested they introduce was Zen and let us not forget that the title composition ended: An Inquiry Into Values. It is a journey about people, roles, life directions and understanding your placement: it is a cultural bearing book. I told the teachers to introduce it as a work, from their personal perspective (that as a announcement to the class) would be puzzling (in the beginning ) from a women's perspective. This of course, is using reverse psychology: which means that the uninvolved have a peaked interest and those left out...wonder why. Never met any of them again.
I smiled. Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance was a big influence in my early 20s.
As correctly noted by you: usually they can not. In a world of reversing orders, it might be appropriate to ask: under what circumstances, and with what regard, are roles turned-over, accepted and built upon? Individual commandments are made with a great deal of ice-breaking softness. Complexity enters into everything. The more players commit up-front, the more delicate the situation from the coach's perspective. Coaches need victories for their atonement (immediacy=administrative points). Players need reinforcement of progress toward a career (longevity=succeeding contracts). Atonement is a hyper-reality that must use a whole spectrum of wants. These wants need to be flexible and very devious. The players are able to grow and expose their angel wings. The coaches need to evoke Faust's Redemption (Goethe) and make an understanding that, "from one man out of the two of them" (Act 3, scene 2).
He's BACK! and I'm back as well, lol! Was away for a short holiday the last few days. So, I was actually trying my luck to jump to the moon but I was on a airplane, not a NASA plane.... But I tried...
Hey, hope you are not affected by the typhoon too. Understand that Taiwan and China were affected and millions have evacuated. But I'm ok the South East Asia. Take care my brother...
I think we just need to hit more shots.
Ben has played on some solid defensive squads. He can provide leadership and guidance during this learning time. He could also get frustrated by the skill sets and attitudes of the players, and a coach not living up to his expectations. I know everybody is happy to see Ben back. For that reason, I too like the decision. I just hope that it lives up to its billing...and not another Michael Curry decision...fiasco.
I have been away from the forum for a few days so this thread has been a delight to read, I have been hooting at my computer so much my neighbors now know for sure I am crazy. WELCOME BACK BEN !!! Coincidently I just re-read Zen a couple of weeks ago and was reminded how much this book influenced my view of the world. Pirsig is truly a deep thinker.
I couldn't agree more. I know Kuester is a big fan of that as well. Hitting more shots that originate behind the painted arc counts for more points, so it would be really nice if we hit more of those.
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