Were did the 3s go??

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Pistons_1337, May 28, 2006.

  1. Pistons_1337

    Pistons_1337 Second Round Draft Pick

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    Ok pistons was the best 3 point shooting team in the season and now they starting to look like that last year pistons who cant hit 3s we need 3s in the playoffs to score 100+ a game we dont take many I understand CB been very off in the pass 7 or 8 playoff games. I still think we could of won last year if we shoot more 3s, It hype up the team when we start hitting them. I know some of you all going to say no we need to score more down low I know that but realy that not are game. Sheed will never be like the old sheed. But I do feel next game he needs to get it done down low and realy no one cant guard him in the east I realy dont understand why flip dont make him post up more that would open up more people for 3s.
  2. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    3's don't win you championships. We're wittnesing that right now.
  3. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    and what about Rips bread and butter curls???? or the Rip to Tay, Rip to Ben alley oops????

    They don't even look like the same team out there. They've gone away from their signature moves and have absolutely collapsed during crunch time.
  4. ahb

    ahb Bench Warmer

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    The baseline double screen for Rip hasn't been a signature move of the Pistons all season long. I was almost shocked when it reappeared in Game 2 - and not surprised when it made a quick exit today. That used to be the unguardable, go-to play the Pistons ran when they needed a hoop. This entire season, Rip has scored almost exclusively on isos/postups, diving Hawk cuts, single-screen dribble drives, or spot-up jumpshooting. It worked efficiently in the regular season when there were open jumpshooters all over the floor, but none of that's Rip's game, and all of it can be guarded pretty well by a determined defender. With the double-screen, curls or flares, one-dribble pullup jumpers and alley-oops - it takes a Bruce Bowen to guard that, and he'll still get open once in a while. While Rip was amazingly efficient in the regular season, I fear he was transformed into Wally Szczerbiak. Go back to the bread-and-butter of Rip's game, with Rip Hamilton the focal point of the offense and not Chauncey Billups! It might not be as pretty as the flex, but it's prettier than the isos, and nobody's found a way to stop it yet.

    The offense that Flip and Chauncey are running in the playoffs includes very little ball movement and even less off-ball movement. But there are only three reasons Rasheed Wallace hasn't been dominant on the block in this postseason: 1) his injured ankle, 2) Chauncey's unwillingness/inability to distribute the ball, and 3) that nobody, either on the court or the bench, seems to know how to feed the post when it's fronted.
  5. aurora

    aurora Bench Warmer

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    Yes, what about Rips curls? They've been gone for many games now. He's out there playing one on one basketball like it's a pickup game at the YMCA. I think Flip is a really lousy playoff coach, unless the team is just not listening to him and Chauncey is calling the plays, in which case Chauncey is a really bad playoff coach.

    Not sure about the 3s. They scare me, but we certainly are taking alot less of them and as Kenny from TNT would say the name of the game for us now is "shot selection, shot selection, shot selection."
  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Great post AHB. The whole thing.
  7. LanierFan

    LanierFan Bench Warmer

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    Yes, great post. It's wrong to blame any one person entirely, but Chauncey is killing us. Watching him lumber out of pick and rolls and try to shoulder past the double team is just driving me nuts. You can't pass from that position and you can't shoot from it, so stop eating up clock time. And how about actually hustling the ball up the court before the defense sets up? Or taking advantage of Jason Williams by getting position down-low without the ball for post-ups and kickouts?

    I swear to God, I'd send a message and start Lindsey Hunter in place of Billups. We've played better on both ends with Lindsey, who actually wants to compete at full speed.
  8. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Gets deeper though when you consider that Wade is defending Hamilton, and the Pistons are putting no pressure on Wade to make stops or plays on the defensive end.

    Wade is an undisciplined foul magnet when he is forced to "man up". Pretty damn hard for him to score if you plant his ass on the bench.

    And because the ball is in Billups' hands he doesn't force the game physically the way Rip does, leaving JWill out of foul trouble, and Payton able to get over aggressive on defense because he knows that CB doesn't respond well to contact and GP himself determines the level of physicality.

    It's really a mess because without CB going in this system, we're sunk. And despite some made shots, he's nowhere near where he was 2 months ago. His game has punked out.

    Add in Sheed at 50% and Dice looking clueless....

    It's hard on mornings like this to not want to trade everyone and fire the coach. As the Grim Reaper gets closer, my mind keeps racing through fallout scenarios....
  9. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    Nice post. I agree with you about the lack of signature plays. The iso stuff is just not working. Got to get back to running some (working) plays for these cats.
  10. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    I would like more 3s but with glass cleaners underneath.
  11. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    You don't want glass cleaners necessarily on 3s. The rebounds will be long.

    The 3s come when the ball moves and someone penetrates to draw help. We are doing neither, which is why there are so few good looks at a trey.

    It's strange, but the Pistons seem so lethargic (mentally and physically) that they cannot carry over any aggressiveness against the Heat. You're not going to win a trench battle with Shaq and Wade with Haslem and Zo cleaning up. You have to take them out of their alignment.

    But who can dribble drive and dish? Rip when he is under control, but CB can't because a lot of his passes look ill.
  12. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    If they have 3 rebounders we need 2 down low to at least give us a 50/50 chance at the bound. kick it out and shoot the 3 again.
    Oh, and Mo can dribble off either foot!
  13. lemonpen

    lemonpen First Round Draft Pick

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    I would be happy if we stopped running the P&R with Ben Wallace. Defenses don't honor it.
  14. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    You guys got it in this post on the money. Nobody on our team is a good enough player 1 on 1 to win us a title. We don't have a Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, MJ, or Hakeem (the most recent non piston champions). What we do have is a PHENOMENOL UNIT, but they have to be a unit. we need a team of cutters, screeners and movers. This 2 man P&R BS is driving me up a frigging wall. We play our best when Rip is the #1 option....PERIOD. When Rip runs his man ragged he has the ability to make a guy play defense even if he never touches the ball, as was stated earlier, make a guy run around 75 picks in a game and you can wear him out midway through the 4th giving yourself a chance to win in the end.

    It boggles me how how a coach could go away from a bread and butter play like that, when it was obvious how effective that play was. That play opens up so many options it ain't even funny. Remember all of the lobs Ben and Dyess would catch when their man cheated on the curl.....ahhhhhhh, the good old "Play the Right Way" days

    DAMMIT I'll say it I WISH LB4LB WAS HERE RIGHT NOW!!!!!! Sorry guys.......I know it was for the best that he's gone, but hey it took me 3 years to completely get over my college sweetheart, so give me at least half of that to get over the coach that took us to two straight Finals and brought home a ring.[​IMG]
  15. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    That's a good post KG. Some "loves" are hard to get over. ;) But we gotta do it. LB is gone, never ever in a million years to return. Or at least not as long as Bill Davidson owns the Pistons.

    We really need Rip running off those screens. Make Wade be a defender. Or take GP off of CB to do the job and let CB work Wade. All around it's a sound strategy.
  16. Winless Wonders

    Winless Wonders Starter Forum Donor

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    This is playoff basketball. Teams have more time to plan for you and take away your bread and butter plays. Flip looks confused and in over his head. I hope the players can pull it out in spite of him. I was not a fan of Flip before he was hired and I am still not a fan of him. All that three point shooting was fools gold. Our team does not have good out side shooters. The reason for there sucess was ball movement and hitting the open guy. We do not have one guy on this team that can hit a 3 with a hand in his face consistently.
  17. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    If we're looking for a silver lining, it's that the shots are available... it appears that we have more open looks against the Heat then we did against the Cavs... a lot of these worries go away if they start knocking them down.

    With the Heat scoring at will inside there needs to be better rotation from the 3rd and 4th defender with each player covering for the intial help defenders.
    Better pressure on the ball early should help a lot... giving the Heat less clock to make the extra pass.
    Eventually you have to take chances on G.P. & Walker hitting their perimiter shots late in the shot clock... it's all in the percentages.
  18. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Absolutely. Merc as per usual has hit the nail on the head.
    One thing though Merc, count me in the camp that doesn't see the shots falling.
    4th ECF=4 long seasons,
    no bench in the regular season=tired legs,
    tired legs=bad perimeter fg%
    There is a reason why we haven't been winning these games that come down to the 4th qtr. We used to be money in these situations, now......well I don't know. Merc you said it earlier this season, Ben is the guy still "Goin to Work" with a thermos and lunchpail; which btw won us a ring, now these New All-Stars have latte's and expense accounts.
    C'mon guys, reach deep into your heart and discover THE PISTONS

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