What about signing Josh Smith and Andre Iguodala??

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by blueadams, Feb 16, 2013.

  1. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,081
    Likes Received:
    156
    It'll take max contract offers to get both. About 16.4m each, or 32.8m total. If we amnesty Villanueva, we'll be sitting with about 31.4m in cap space; just 1.4m short. I'm guessing that the cap will increase 1.4m on its own, and that we wouldn't have to do anything to make this happen. If it doesn't, moving V. Kravstov (1.5m salary) would be enough...though I'd much rather move Stuckey or Jerebko, if possible. After adding these two, we could go over the cap to sign our birds-right player J. Calderon.





    C: G. Monroe(16min).....A. Drummond(32min)
    PF: J. Smith(32min).....G. Monroe(16min)
    SF: A. Iguodala(32min).....K. Singler(16min)
    SG: B. Knight(16min).....K. Singler(16min).....Stuckey(16min)
    PG: J. Calderon(32min).....B. Knight(16min)

    Reserves: 1st Rd. Pick(?), J. Jerebko, V. Kravtsov, K. English/K. Middleton/2nd Rd. Pick(?)/other resignees/MLE/LLE(?)

    Total Minutes: Monroe(32min-C/PF), Smith(32min-PF), Iguodala(32min-SF), Calderon(32min-PG), Drummond(32min-C), Knight(32min-SG/PG), Singler(32min-SF/SG), Stuckey(16min-SG)





    Thoughts?

    It sucks giving big long contracts to Smith(27), Iguodala(29) and Calderon(31). It sucks giving max contracts to borderline top-25 players in Smith and Iguodala. But, seriously, who else are we going to get!? When are we going to get them!? The rotations work. The minutes work. The team works. That's a team that's going to (at least) get to the ECF in this weak league several times over the duration of those contracts. That's a great team..

    Jose Calderon's as great a floor-general as you could hope for. He's a basketball genius. His IQ's off the charts. He's a coach on the court. He's a great team leader. He runs the fast break like an all-star. He distributes the ball like few can. He knocks down outside shots with the best of them. He's one of the best FT shooters in the league, great for closing games. And while he's not a great defender, he does give excellent effort on that end. I think he's still got 3 or 4 (or more) prime seasons left in him..

    Josh Smith is a borderline top-25 NBA player. Few big men can run the court - with Calderon - like him. He's an excellent inside scorer. And he's one of the best defensive players in the league ~ A great matchup on LeBron.

    Andre Iguodala is a borderline top-25 NBA player. He can run the court - with Calderon - as well. He's an excellent all-around scorer. And he too is one of the best defensive players in the league ~ Another great matchup on LeBron.

    Greg Monroe probably is a top-25 NBA player. He's not the fast-break athlete that Smith, Iggy or Calderon is, but he brings a much needed, fundamental game to the court for when things slow down.

    Andre Drummond will, in all likelihood, probably be a top-10 NBA player in 2 or 3 seasons; and the game's best big man. No true big man in the league can run the court quite like him. He's going to become an above average (at least) inside scorer. He's already becoming one of the league's best interior defenders.

    Brandon Knight's not a top-anything. But I like what I've seen out of him as a two-guard thus far. And he's a good enough of a point guard to give Calderon a break here and there. Still very, very young. His outside shot is improving. He's getting more comfortable taking it to the hole. He's improving as a defender. He's an incredible athlete. He'll be perfect running alongside Calderon. And he appears to be quite a natural making decisions with the ball on the break..

    Kyle Singler's not a top-anything either. But he is a very sound all-around player who's great in a fast-paced offense, and who won't hurt you on defense.

    Stuckey's Stuckey. 16 minutes or less a game is perfect for him. He can keep focused for that long (though, I'd love to trade him).
    Throw in a lotto pick!!
     
  2. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,861
    Likes Received:
    808
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    No you can't, that's against the rules. Also there's no way on Earth Iggy is going to opt out this summer, he's scheduled to make almost $16M next season and he's not exactly having career year in terms of stats. Guys opt out when they are OVER performing their contract not UNDER performing. Mayo also has a player option for next season but he's only scheduled to make $4.2M next season and after coming off the stats he's putting up this year there's no way he will opt in.
     
  3. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,081
    Likes Received:
    156
    1) Are you sure that you're no longer allowed to go over the cap to resign your own players?? When did that happen? That's how the heat kept Wade after signing LeBron and Bosh. I thought the big new deal in the CBA was about the luxury tax/fine? 2) Why wouldn't he opt out for a max deal at max length?
     
  4. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,861
    Likes Received:
    808
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    1. The Heat signed LeBron, Wade and Bosh ALL under the cap, Wade actually took a smaller contract to facilitate it. You absolutely can not use cap space AND Bird Rights, it's one or the other.
    2. NOBODY is going to give Iggy a Max deal starting at $16M/yr. Go look at his career stats, you can clearly see why he got his current contract and the decline of production ever since.
     
  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,566
    Likes Received:
    2,427
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    I wouldnt pay Iggy more than $8 million a year. Nothing about him screams WINNER or CLOSER.
     
    S.J. likes this.
  6. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,200
    Likes Received:
    854

    As I understand it, for the purpose of counting cap space, unless a team renounces the Bird rights they have to a player, offseason veteran (non-rookie-contract) free agents that were making above the league average count against the cap at 150% of the rate of their last contract. For example, until the Pistons renounce their Bird rights to Calderon, he counts against the offseason cap at 150% of his $11 million rate (which would be $16.5 million). Same thing with Maggette, although I expect that the Pistons will renounce that the minute they can.

    Took this from cbafaq.com:
    36. Can a team with cap room sign all the free agents it wants (up to the salary cap) and THEN re-sign its own free agents using the Bird exception?

    A team's ability to do this is very limited. The team's free agents continue to be included in team salary. This charge is called the "free agent amount," which is a form of cap hold. There may not be enough money available under the cap to sign another team's free agent, because the team's own free agents are taking up all its cap room.
     
  7. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,200
    Likes Received:
    854
    And like others here have said, Iggy isn't opting out of his contract. Now, let's say Denver is having cap trouble (they will be) and they want to trade Iggy for a cheaper option. The Pistons have the cap space to get him, and maybe they trade him for Stuckey, who's half the price (it's a win-win for both teams). Then they amnesty Villanueva, sign Calderon for $9m for next year. It's pretty close to what you're thinking, and it puts them right at the projected cap number ($58 million), but it is doable. Then they have an expiring $15m contract in Iguodala that leaves them space to negotiate with Monroe the following year, and this would be their roster:

    PG: Calderon, Knight
    SG: Iguodala, English
    SF: Smith, Singler, Middleton
    PF: Monroe, Jerebko
    C: Drummond, Kravtsov

    And that's not including the draft picks, which they can exceed the cap to sign. Defensively, this would be an outstanding starting five; the only weakness I can see is a lack of three-point shooting, but you can bring that in off the bench with Knight, English, Singler, and Jerebko. I think Frank would have a field day designing offensive sets with the slashers in this group.

    So we came to the same result, with mine not having to deal with Stuckey. What do I win?
     
    blueadams, Mogilny and basketbills like this.
  8. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,695
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    How many years running is it that we're expecting another team to just give us a good player because they're having cap problems?
     
    blueadams and KGREG like this.
  9. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,861
    Likes Received:
    808
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    Yet that's how the Jazz got AL Jefferson
     
    blueadams likes this.
  10. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,081
    Likes Received:
    156
    1) I'm not 100% sure about what the rules are now, but you are plain incorrect about what the Heat did, and about what was allowed within the rules at that time. At this point in time, it was within the rules to go over the cap to resign your own bird's right players. (I was in a PASPN fantasy league at the time, a realistic fantasy basketball league that operates within the current rules of the CBA - - and I did this).

    2) Pistons will have to overpay for whoever they get. How much, who knows.
     
  11. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2006
    Messages:
    4,213
    Likes Received:
    362
    Location:
    Ann Arbor/Chicago/Walland, TN
    He has been in a year long shooting slump, but he has been doing all sorts of other things to help his team win. In some ways this is maybe his best year. But, yes, he is on the downhill side and a long ways from a max contract guy.

    Sent from my SCH-I905 using Tapatalk 2
     
  12. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    2,710
    Likes Received:
    368
    Location:
    Michigan/Glasgow
  13. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,638
    Likes Received:
    2,972
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    He's a top 10 defender (Iggy).
     
  14. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,695
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    But the Heat let go of everyone else so they could offer Wade a deal by keeping his estimate on the cap and sign Bosh and LBJ. Bird rights allow you to exceed the cap to sign a player but doing so absorbs cap space also. You can't and couldn't use the cap space and then apply Bird rights after the fact.
     
  15. hitafreethrow

    hitafreethrow Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,139
    Likes Received:
    94
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Keweenaw
    Iggy isn't worth a max contract, but I'd be happy to pay him 10-12 a year. He's a lock down defender at the 3 spot, he attacks the rim well, boards well, has a great mid range shot, 2 Olympic runs, and really plays unselfishly.
    Josh Smith is a good player, but like others have stated, he's not a max player. He will get a max contract his off season thats for sure.
     
  16. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,200
    Likes Received:
    854
    I don't expect them to give the Pistons a good player without getting anything in return, but the reality is that the Nuggets are facing the luxury tax next year and it's a pretty brutal scale.

    You're right, though - Iguodala is going to have a crap ton of trade value next year because he's a good player with a large expiring contract, so it may take more than Stuckey to get him.
     
  17. The Panda

    The Panda Garbage Post All Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2,027
    Likes Received:
    1,124
    Gender:
    Male
    Iggy is great player, and is probably still worth $12-15 a year. But I wouldn't offer him a max. He doesnt solve our spacing issues. Smith is a far better choice at the 3, just because he can shoot a little bit (lol).

    I wouldn't be happy with Smith at max. Its just not a smart move. He deserves a raise, but not a 5m+
     
  18. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,200
    Likes Received:
    854
    FWIW, Smith is sixth in the league in blocks and 18th in defensive rating. Getting him would be a huge boost against teams like NY and Miami.

    The other problem with that lineup is that the Pistons would easily trot out the worst free-throw starting lineup in the league. (Calderon: .88% career, Iggy: 73%, Smith: 66%, Monroe: 68%, Drum: 37%)
     
  19. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,081
    Likes Received:
    156
    Beggars can not be choosers.
     
  20. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    15,607
    Likes Received:
    3,590
    Location:
    Michigan
    GREAT POINT. So many games, at all levels, come down to free throws in the end.
     

Share This Page