When would be the best time to fire Flip Saunders?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by TaS, Dec 14, 2007.

?

When would be the best time to fire Flip Saunders?

  1. Yesterday

    73.3%
  2. Today

    3.3%
  3. Tomorrow

    10.0%
  4. At the all-star break

    13.3%
  1. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    14,167
    Likes Received:
    2,350
    Location:
    Michigan
    Jerry Sloan has coached many excellent teams. He has never won a championship. Should Sloan be fired? Maybe Sloan is just a good regular season coach like Saunders....
  2. raxrets

    raxrets Starter

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    2,476
    Likes Received:
    92
    Location:
    tartu
    Geez, how many roster changes you see each year? There are only a couple or so teams, where roster changes let's say 50% or so during a summer.

    And for adjustments, this forum has not understood , that game plans means nothing if players are not capable of executing them. For bigger adjustments you also need better bench than pistons has had last two years. Bench from a title-year was actually better than some teams staring 5.

    Having only 6-7 accountable players for a play-off run means that you
    play as you play and hope for the best.
  3. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    3,250
    Likes Received:
    375
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    The difference is, twice has Sloan had the roster capable of winning it all. He's at least gone to The Finals which gives you a 50/50 chance of ending up with the title. The problem is. Flip has had at least 3 distinct chances and is working on a fourth and continuously fails to get the job done by even getting to the Finals.
  4. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    11,649
    Likes Received:
    295
    Location:
    Land of the Spuds.
    If Sloan had coached against Flip in the finals, do you really believe he would still be without a championship?
  5. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    14,167
    Likes Received:
    2,350
    Location:
    Michigan
    The difference between winning and losing a series is smaller than most people realize or are willing to admit. If Prince doesn't block Reggie Miller's shot, perhaps the Pistons don't make it to the Finals in 2004. If the Pistons' opponents aren't injured, perhaps the Pistons don't win it all in 2004. If Sheed doesn't leave Horry, perhaps the Pistons win it all in 2005. There are so many little breaks, injuries, players stepping it up, players choking, etc. that the difference between winning and losing a series is often miniscule when two closely-matched teams face off.
  6. raxrets

    raxrets Starter

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    2,476
    Likes Received:
    92
    Location:
    tartu
    Ken Holland ( Red Wings GM)has said (and repeatedly!), that fans does not undersand, that for winning a title everything has to go your way, whatever it is and many of those things you'll need, are absolutely out of your control.
  7. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,010
    Likes Received:
    2,482
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    Sloan should definitely be fired. Then re-hired by us!
  8. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    11,649
    Likes Received:
    295
    Location:
    Land of the Spuds.
    Agreed, but offhand, I cannot think of one or two plays that the last two conference finals series hinged upon. Personally, I don't think it should have come down to that anyhow, even if there were a couple of plays.
  9. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    9,249
    Likes Received:
    345
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Los Lunas, NM
    Just give me some replacements.
  10. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2007
    Messages:
    9,434
    Likes Received:
    349
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Kiev - Farmington Hills, MI - Santa Clara, CA
    It has been proven that this group of guys can't win it all without support from the bench. J-Max has been worked into the rotation and is big help, Hayes and Afflalo get consistent minutes, so they are part of the rotation. However, the guy with the highest ceiling (according to the team executives and scouts around the league) is barely getting any playing time. Flip may not be the best or the worst coach, but until he understands what players can get him over the hump this team is not going all the way.
  11. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    11,970
    Likes Received:
    1,226
    Location:
    Rancho Cucamonga, CA
    Neither the team nor the fans should wait for the all star break. We could already be hamperred by then with smne key starter injured or a couple of them like Dice and Tay already on the brink of burn out. In addition, we could be still waiting for both AJ and Stuckey to get significant PT which means no PT in the post season....get rid of the bum while we are still ahead and bring in Paul Silas or someone like Phil J who plays everyone!!

    Heck I bet former Piston coach Doug Collins has learned more behind the mic these last 10 years than he did when he was sucking it up with the Bulls and Pistons in the 80's and 90's. I'd trust him to lead the Pistons back to glory than Flipper. At least Drecognizes the talent on the Pistons bench....
  12. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    9,249
    Likes Received:
    345
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Los Lunas, NM
    OMG ! Dre you would give "Drama Collins" another look?
    -
    OK, one year, that's all we all could handle.
  13. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Detroit
    Yesterday since he ain't figured out how to get Amir on the floor....especially during the first half of the season. Can't say he's learned how to recognize a hot hand either.

    What cha wanna bet FlipSr had NO input on this trade?
  14. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    3,250
    Likes Received:
    375
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    First off, Reggie's layup would have only tied the game. It wouldn't have given Indy a victory so, there's no argument there.

    Secondly, Flip getting his arse handed to him by CLE last year and MIA the year before were due in LARGE part to Flip getting the KFC coached off him just as much as it was LB coaching the pants off lil Frank and Phishy Phil. These things are major factors in the outcome of playoff series. Your argument might fly in the regular season when guys may or may not be coasting. But, when it's for all the marbles...it's not up to the whim of chance.
  15. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    9,249
    Likes Received:
    345
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Los Lunas, NM
    I don't know Low, those little mistakes, etc. look pretty large at crunch time.
    Especially the last miscue.
  16. raxrets

    raxrets Starter

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    2,476
    Likes Received:
    92
    Location:
    tartu
    folks, do not forget, that coaches do not play, players do. Coach may give has many instructions as he want, but it is players RESPONSIBILITY to follow them... Players ARE NOT robots!!!! C'mon do you really think like oh we didn't play any defence , cuz coach didn't tell us.
  17. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,829
    Likes Received:
    738
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    OK here' s the deal:
    1. We are one of the best defensive teams in the league (stat wise, in all areas) during Flip's reign.
    2. We are a very good team, capable of winning it all.
    3. Whether or not THE PISTONS win it all has more to do with brains, hustle and heart, than X's and O's.
    4. This coach does not get the most out of the key members of this team ie Billups and Wallace.
    Flip in no way what-so-ever SUCKS as a coach. But in no-way-what-so-ever is a Flip a champion, he just doesn't have it inside. The same way Jordan, Magic, Bird, Manning and Brady have another level when it comes time to the playoffs, coaches do too. Pop has it, Avery shows signs, Riles is a legend, Phil is the Man (uugghh), Sloan even has it if Jordan wasn't in his way.....but FLIP AINT GOT IT. He does not know how to build a team towards a champinship. The worse part about it is that this team has sooooooo much talent now it's rediculous. Alot of teams would like to have the guys on our team that dont even dress.
  18. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    11,970
    Likes Received:
    1,226
    Location:
    Rancho Cucamonga, CA
    Agree wholeheartedly of what you posted here KGREG, about flips non championship persona and getting to the next level, but tell me what teams were calling Joe begging for him for a crack at Dupree?:)
  19. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,010
    Likes Received:
    2,482
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    Yeah, I guess that sums up how I feel too. Well worded.

    Good coach that should be fired... if we had someone better lined up.

    My ideal scenario is that Laimbeer steps in as the coach and Flip gets promoted to the offensive coordinator. That could work. They'd all have headsets and clip boards. Flip could be sitting up in an office somewhere during the games relaying his calls down to the court.
  20. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    3,250
    Likes Received:
    375
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    No, the fact is. The coach is responsible for the approach/strategy of the team's offense and defense. Some approaches/strategies work better than others and most great coaches understand the necessary approach they have to take in order to get the most successful results from the players they have on their roster. Larry Brown is a master at it. Chuck Daly was good at it. Pat Riley is good at it, but has no patience. Greg Popavich is magnificent at it. So is Phil Jackson when he has great talent to work around.

    The problem is this. Flip Saunders' approach to coaching, offense, defense, player development, player dicipline, and player relations is flawed. His gameplans don't ever get the job done because unless he has undeniably the absolute best talent in the league, he has no ability to outsmart, out think, out strategize, or out maneuver other coaches. The great coaches find a way to make their players better, make them perform better in the post season, or simply get more than is expected from them. Flip has no ability to do this. He's a lot like Cola in that he'll only get what's expected out of the players he has. They will never improve or surprise you with their performances. They'll only do well what they already know how to do well. Therefore unless Dumars can give Saunders a dream team roster. He'll never win.

Share This Page