Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by webz, Sep 25, 2006.
Whats up fellows.been a fan since the bad boy days. I dont think were going to miss Ben as much as ppl think. He is a very good help defender,but is 1 on 1 defense is very suspect. The heat figured him out.
No, but several hundred over the past 4 or 5 years does. Not to mention being named the DPOY 4 times. Not to mention the past 3 years of fourth quarter heroics that pushed this team to 2 ECF appearances and 1 championship.
Your little bully analogy is cute, but it's still a false analogy. If anything, Ben Wallace has been whuppin up on the league for many years now, including Shaq in 2004, and Shaq again in 2005. Ben Wallace didn't get too old, the Heat got very good. Zo took alot of the pressure off the Diesel to play every minute, so fatique was not as much of an issue. When push came to shove, Ben was on the bench, so we will never know if could have pulled off another miracle.
linewood true but Bens play in the Miami series was unheard of for someone of his status. 4 time DPOY's do not get only 4 blocks over the span of 6 games in the ECF. It would have been unimanigable for Ben to be benched in the 4th quarter of an elimination game.
We very well could be living in the past with Ben... he's earned every accolade... but maybe his better days are behind him... the price could have had a crippling effect... it's ok to be a big supporter of B.W. and still be ok with what went down.
One or two more years and this board would have been questioning a re-signing.... with no gaurantees of a ship with Ben.
Let's sit back and watch what happens to Chicago over the next two years.... they better get there or heads will roll.
I don't know about the other nights, but I have an idea of where they will go on December 8th, February 21st and 23rd, and April 11th.
I certaily will be watching his production starting Nov 1. Another thing he will have to contend with is how well Chandler does in ATL.
For now we have a lot of questions to be answered in the pre-season about our team.
I actually am looking forward to the new season. I will miss Ben, but I have high hopes for Nazr's ability to fit into "the system."
It just bugs me when people throw Ben under the bus as if his free throw shooting was the only problem the Pistons had during the playoffs.
Going back to the original thread question. I am not worried about the rebs since the rest of the team can step up. I will miss the shot blocking. The Miami series noted we used to have a pretty good shot blocker. We will not have that this season.
it bugs me when people act like ben wasn't the problem cause he used to be dpoy. i'm not talking about those years. i'm talking about last year ben wallace was the problem. he had the attitude and ego too. he wouldn't buy into the coaches defensive scheme. he refused to go into the orlando game which set the ball rolling for our mental collapse.
when 2 teams see the way to beat the pistons is to not check ben wallace and were very successful with the tactic it's time to accept it that ben is a weakness. it would be different if only 1 coach tried it for 1 quarter during 1 game. riley had it as the total game plan and he knew flip didn't have the balls to sit the former "dpoy" down for the series and let mcdyess get rolling.
Sucked in again.... lol.
It bothers me when people act like Ben was the ONLY problem. BTW, he is the "current" as well as "former" DPOY. Don't get it twisted. Your arguement is weak because up to last year his offensive discrepencies have always been targeted by the opposition, but never ultimately prevented us from success. Most can admit, including myself, that Ben did not behave like a team player during that incident and seemingly had a drop off in production during the playoffs. Was this a calculted dropoff? I doubt it seriously, but its possible. Honestly, I think you stand on an island in this forum as it pertains to Ben's contribution pre-Orlando breakdown. Even if you subscribe to the theory that Ben was a complete liability to the Pistons last year, I feel there is still no denying that he deserves praise for the impact he has had on the organization. Did he contribute to the Pistons fall from grace? Absolutely. But you have to add Dice's vanishing act, Chauncey poor decision making and weak defense, Rasheed's inconsistency and Flip's inability to make adjustments/garner respect from his players to that list as well. Add an undeveloped bench and a motivated, well-coached Miami team to the mix and you've got a loss on your hands.
Dude, it wasn't just Ben. There's enough blame to throw around.
no one has ever targeted us with the gameplan and committment like riley did. a couple of coaches tried it but nobody based thier entire playoff gameplan on simply not checking ben wallace. thier entire 4th quarter crunch time gameplan of just fouling ben when you need a stop. what riley did last year was entirely new.
he is the paper dpoy. artest and bowen were better defenders last year. i don't acknowledge his winning it.
what have you done for me lately. yes he can get praise for what he did in the past. but he does not get a free pass for destroying us last year cause he helped to build us the years before.
mcdyess minutes were cut for an unknown reason during the playoffs. he was rolling right before the playoffs. i blame this on flip. flip should have sat ben down in the cleveland series where he wasn't effective. ben probably caused this too with his refusals to come out of the game.
chauncey was tired because of the stupid orlando trade. this too was also caused by ben. chauncey was having mvp type season before arroyo was traded and it was downhill from there.
rasheed was injured.
flip lost respect when the "heart and soul" of the team decided to become a malcontent. it was all downhill after the orlando game. he also couldn't make the needed adjustments because it was a contract year for ben and couldn't risk offending him. during the playoffs the best adjustment we could have made was to sit ben down.
McDyess' minutes were not cut.
Yes, Yes, Yes, a hundred thousand times yes!!!! Thank you Mo.
Why do so many people refuse to see this? Take off your blinders folks.
The Pistons had an excellent team, but there were enough shortcomings to stop us where we got stopped.
Deal with it. Move on. Get a clue.
How many times does it have to be explained to you? The reason why it worked is because the coach gave in and took the DPOY off the floor. Prior to that, we never saw Ben's coaches give up on him like that. Ben has felt the impact of Hack a Ben for years. Flip lost faith in his captain and the rest of the team lost its playoff identity in the process. How many playoff comebacks can you think of in the pass couple years that didn't involve Ben making amazing defensive plays to get transition buckets. This was foreign territory for this squad. Credit Riley. He helped turn the team against eachother in the NBA Finals. We saw a team that looked noticeably lost with its captain on the bench wondering what went wrong. Prior to last season our solidarity on and off the bench was considered our strength.
Convenient that you don't acknowledge an accolade that the rest of the league does. Could it be because it hurts your case? Nah, you're so objective...that couldn't be it. lol
For you to cocentrate on the last third of the season as rationale to discount 5 years of solid perfomance says alot. I wonder how many of us would like to have our entire life defined by a mistake we made. I hope you're holding yourself to the same standard. Personally, I wasn't happy when you disappeared after your predictions on Darko's career with the Pistons went flat. Some may say that you gave up on the team a bit when your love affair with Darko took a turn. However, I know you are a devote poster and that you love the Pistons. If only you could extend the same type of openmindedness to the afro'd one.
You're too much. lol. Dude, you honestly blame Ben for everything. I'm seriously wondering if you have 2004 Championship pictures in your house with Ben Wallace's face crossed out in all of them.
lol. Now been has forced Darko to ask to be traded and forced Joe Dumars to pull the trigger...all without actually saying it. Ben Wallace is truely a Jedi master. So much that he even was able to magically affect Chauncey's conditioning in the playoffs. Cool.
Come on bballjay, you let me down here. I'm sure you can manufacture away to make this Ben's fault too. Let's see...Ben's reluctance to come out of the game pressured Sheed to play more as well effectively slowing down his healing process. How's that?
Come on, man. Flip loss respect the moment he decided he would let the team coach themselves. He didn't stand up and take charge of the team and when he wanted to it was too late. If more than one player was acting unproffesional then Flip's problem was not limited to his ability to manage Ben Wallace.
Bballjay, if you're goal is to keep me busy as I wait for the preseason to begin, you are succeeding. You make it very difficult to sit back and read your comments that are generally based on speculation...your speculation.
LMAO, Motown you're rollin' today brother!
Musta had his wheaties
[Insert graph of Motown's credibility rating rising]
dude. as i recall flip only decided to take ben off the court in the last game. the other games he stuck it out with ben in there. by the time hack a ben was fully in a effect it was crunch time and it was very effective. it didn't work because flip took ben off the court it worked because flip kept ben on the court and he couldn't at least hit 1 of 2 free throws to make riley stop the tactic. ben wasn't making any defensive plays worthy of note in the miami series so why would flip think he would make some that are worthy of him being on the court???
i don't acknowledge it because he's the paper champ. he isn't the dpoy because he was the best defensive player. ron artest is a knucklehead and bowen is seen as dirty. ben puts a nice clean face on the award. it doesn't hurt my case in the least. ben is a great defender except against shaq who is going to get his anyway. which is why ben should be on the bench against miami.
betrayal is a big mistake. i can forgive sheed for a boneheaded play that could have gave us a ring. i can't forgive ben for turning on the hand that fed him. ben is on my bad side with lb. there is no coming back. unless they admit thier wrong doings against darko and ask for forgiveness. lol. so basically they will always be on my bad side.
yeah. it hurt me a bit the way the pistons did darko. i mean i believed it every time when they said he would get a shot. darko will be missed. i took a break from posting so i wouldn't destroy what was a good season otherwise.
actually i was at the parade. i had pics of ben with the trophy i deleted them off my computer. i needed the hard drive space.
ben pulled a power move on joe. said i'll sign if that darko guy is gone. we were in the championship hunt and joe made a choice. then after darko was out of the way the real ben wallace aka "the malcontent" came out.
ben started the complaints. he is the one that put it in the other guys head that it was ok. ben was supposed to be the shut up and play guy. i expect more from the "heart and soul". ben was in a contract year and darko was long gone so by the time the malcontent surfaced flip had no options.
who on this forum is posting fact only?? my speculations are at least based on observations. yours are based on emotions.
Nice effort Mo, but its just not gonna happen.
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