With just one trade....

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by dozero, Jan 13, 2007.

  1. dozero

    dozero First Round Draft Pick

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    Okay. If (and all things point to it happening) Webber signs with us, with one move, how can we jump start our team and prepare for the future? I can't find the link, but the article stated that the Raptors were asking about a Dice for MoPete trade and I believe that move alone could help us on so many levels.

    1. Dice, although an important piece, will not opt out next year thus eating more cap dollars. True, I'd rather it be NM traded, but this is who the Raptors said they were interested in. We'll have to worry about NM some other day or with some other trade.

    2. we now have a (serviceable defensive) backup at the 3 spot ('Fino is a better 2 then 3 and that's that) and CD and MP on the floor spreads the defense allows the bigs to play big and the point to penetrate and pop.

    3. we now have a boat load of expiring contracts (good for players looking to showcase themselves) for next year's goal of resigning Billups.

    1st team: CB, RH, TP, RW and CW
    2nd team: LH, CD, MP, JM and DD
    3rd team: WB, FM, RD, AJ and NM

    playoffs: 1st and 2nd with FM and NM

    Now: if you can trade NM (who I really don't have a problem with) for Earl Watson (in case CB does a Ben Wallace) and FM (who I really do have a problem with) for a 3rd string center
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Great post dozero.

    1. Mo Pete's expiring is sweetness. We can re-sign him without using an exception, or we can drop the money off the books a year early (super tempting for Bill Davidson's accountant, Joe Dumars).

    2. Mo Pete can play 30 minutes per night if needed. He was until recently the league iron man.

    Chris McCoskey keeps saying that Flip Murray is done in Detroit. I definitely think he will be moved.
  3. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 Starter Forum Donor

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    I get that impression, too. I know that Tay "took back" what he said about chemistry problems in the locker room, but I suspect Murray is the cause. McCoskey pretty much ripped Murray in that Wojo/Stoney interview, sarcastically referring to him as "Mr. Effervescence" and saying he sulks a lot. Bad for team morale, Mr. Murray is.
  4. lapeapod

    lapeapod First Round Draft Pick

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    I am on board for another trade once Chris Webber is really a Piston. I like Dale Davis a lot but basically he's a 3rd string center that has been viewed as our designated Shaq defender if the Pistons get far enough in the playoffs to meet Miami. Dice is a fan favorite with his always happy disposition, sweet shot and great effort when he's on his game. The key in my opinion is to have that wonderful team chemistry back that made them the Pistons, always clicking on all gears. Sheed admitted as much last night in his post game comments he's very unhappy. He's comes late to practice, his body language is just shouting out he's a whipped dog lately. So why is he unhappy and why is the chemistry off right now? I would trade off the player or players that have mucked up the chemistry and really since we're not in the locker room with the boys I am speculating that Flip Murray doesn't have great chemistry with Sheed. I was watching the game last night and when Murray made a really good play late in the game (slashing layup that led also to a foul), none of the players were rushing up to him at the timeout to really congratulate him and say great play. So Murray needs to be traded and packaged with a strong piece and that would be Dale Davis if it gets us back a backup point guard. If we do trade Davis and Murray for another shooting guard/small forward that doesn't solve all our problems because that just makes Delfino irrelevant since he would be backing up Tay only and that's good for 8 minutes a game since Tay logs major minutes. I do have faith that Joe Dumars will do what it takes to make trades and not bankrupt the future. On my list are untouchables that should not be traded unless we got back some franchise players (i.e. Jason Kidd). Those untouchables right now are Tay, Rip, Maxiell, Chauncey and Amir Johnson.
  5. dozero

    dozero First Round Draft Pick

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    Hey, I like Dice, too! Professional and all that. But three things stand out: 1. of our bigs, he's the most requested, 2. he's not a smart defender (way too many tick tack fouls) and 3. Davis is a better intimidation/rebounder in the post. And we need that in the paint now that Ben is gone.

    Now, is Sheed a problem? I'd have to say yes. However, his antics and salary make him a difficult trade. So, you're going to have to try and maximize the situation with the player. Lower his minutes and get him to buy in to playing harder for that 30 he's on the floor until Flip is removed from coaching and Bill Lambeer is offered the job.
  6. pass99

    pass99 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    DD seems to be gone and I think that he will help any team that acquires him. Playing 20-25 minutes should get him into 10-10 areas. The same area that CWebb will bring. Then why not play him more and forget all this drama?

    Here’s my take:
    • There is no team chemistry, because you have no leader. Does having three captains say anything to you? You have an established vet team that no longer has fire to win and bring it on a daily basis. The east is so weak, that getting there merely means going through the motions and letting lucky breaks determine (depth and experience) the final outcome. Besides, CWebb will give the fans a sense of anticipation. JD needed a shakeup and this was ready made. A vet at the cheapest rate possible. Fan memories (good and bad) creating new excitement, meaning more fan energy which is the only thing that will pick this team up. This will be baggage easily moved near the end or after the season.
    • Naz is solid and unspectacular. At age 29, with a new a new contract (30mil over 5 years) means another bargain for JD. His role will be around 20 minutes and strictly as a backup…which is what he is at this stage of his career. It seems unlikely he will be moved unless there are attitude issues. This is not a contract that hurts JD at all, whether he keeps him or decides to move him in a package deal. Probably a late season or summer trade deal.
    • Dyess is 32 and going nowhere. Very similar to DD, solid as backup and his role has been diminishing since bench youngsters need more time (JMax). Good trading material and he can help a lot of clubs immediately. Should be gone with the first-second trade before the deadline.
    • The second trade will have more effect, because is will involve tempo. BWells is my pick and I have stated reasons elsewhere. This move will hurt JD more because he will have to give up more. Again, this will not hurt the big picture moves when JD gets serious about acquiring a center and signing CB. Wells gains, because he can once again, showcase his talents, and he will be the key that gets the Pistons get into the finals. RMurray will be expendable and let us hope that it will not cost us too much with a probable draft pick sent along with him (or with the others).
    Two trades will keep everyone busy. People that might be moved: Flip, DD, Dyess and maybe another….depending on the depth of the trades.

    Are we all having fun?

    Go Pistons!
  7. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    I say no way they should trade Dale Davis. Dale Davis has a lot left yet, even at around 38 years old. Just a couple of years back, he saved Indiana's year for them by coming back and playing center. Dale Davis, above all, can get over to play help out D-without fouling. Its a lot more valuable than a lot of people think. And he cleans the glass well, being someone who pushes others out of the way, not the other way around.
  8. lemonpen

    lemonpen First Round Draft Pick

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    Nobody saw the Sheed comming until it was upon us. Could Joseph be working out a deal to bring (dare I say) Mike James back home.

    Dyess + Murray + Blalock = $7.4M MJ = $5.9M.

    It gives the Twolves potential cap relief, a young PG, and a starting quality PF to go along side KG.

    KG is approaching a player option year and Minni ought to be doing something to convince him to stay.
  9. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    I totally agree Lee. Not to mention, he is the Pistons only tough guy. This team needs someone who is willing to win with Maximum Effort instead of just relying on talent.
  10. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    If we're going to move one of our trade assets, it needs to be for a legit point guard.
  11. ahb

    ahb Bench Warmer

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    I also agree with lee.
  12. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    i agree with linwoods agreement! DD brings inside presence.

    1. keep DD
    2. play him.


    We have a problem with how our PG sub patterns are made. Only Hunter doesn't lose it in terms of attitude and morale. Flip lost it. Arroyo lost it. Does anyone think that any player with any measure of talent will be satisfied with 12-15 minutes?
    I say we experiment with Delfino as guard #3 in a 3 guard rotation. just for a little while.
  13. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    If could turn Nazr into Watson & Dice into Mo Pete we are back in the running.... I think to get Toronto to go along with this deal you'd have to sweeten the pot (Minny 2nd)..
    The thing is Mo could force the issue by simply saying he won't be returning to the Raps (you get nothing for me).

    The problem with moving Davis is we lose a banger to go up against the Diesel (not that Shaq won't abuse him too).... I'd like to go after someone like Diop for big body insurance.
  14. hack

    hack First Round Draft Pick

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    Nazr is the best candidate to trade. Max is young, Dice is experienced with us, Davis is in theory capable of being our best defender in extended minutes. There's nothing Nazr does that we'd miss.
  15. webz

    webz All-Star Administrator 2x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Its so sad that our energy guys are Davis and Hunter. Theres nothing like a ticking clock to get you motivated to play.

    I don't want to see DD go. I'd trade Dice and Nazr way before DD.
    I really want to see us pick up Mo Pete. I think he and CD will complement each others game really well.

    This team needs an adrenalin shot and hopefully C-Webb and Mo will be the guys to bring it.
  16. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Dale has been playing very well, and I would also hate to see him go. The Pistons have to give up something good if they want something good back in return though. If the Pistons get Webber and keep Dale the log jam at PF and C will be too big. If we do a package with Dale and Flip we could get a nice backup PG, and a motivated C Webb.
  17. Rip 32

    Rip 32 First Round Draft Pick

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    Cwebb should help and having murray around prolly doesent help much either. DD is pretty good but u dont know what ur gonna get outa him night after night.u should see Mad MAXY take the starting spot soon but its not just the center spot that gives us complications .rasheeds had a lack of effort lately i think he has a problem wit flip(coach) rip has stepped up and done all he could but that s not enufff witout CB .FM is really sucking maybe coach should start hunter and he hasnt given Dyess much of a chance lately and Tay is just takin things as they come HE NEEDS TO STEP UP! rip cant get all our points . he needs to try to take to the hoop more .He just cant jack up 3's like rasheed .if he does step up he can be the face of our franchize for years to come
  18. Rip 32

    Rip 32 First Round Draft Pick

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    DD and Hunter arent our energy guys THey sit at the end of the bench CB usually is but well u know and rip should step up and motivate Sheed should change his atti tude instead of just guaransheeding things
  19. Terry T

    Terry T First Round Draft Pick

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    A good post from another forum that might shed some light on this.


    Wed. 01/10/07 11:39 PM
    Just got back


    Good thing I didn't have to pay for that game! I can tell what at least one of Sheed's problems is and it is more apparent when you are at the game. It is the Flips. More the player than the coach. Although the coach does take some blame because he decides who plays.

    When the bigs are on the block establishing position, Murray is up top dribbling the air out of the ball. He is late making the pass to the wing (if he makes one) which means Sheed has to try and hold his position until Murray is done dribbling between his legs a few times. By the time he does mmake the pass, Sheed has no time to operate. Murray plays ZEROOOO defense. He stands at the free throw line while his man is surveying the floor like a quarterback at practice with the red jersey on from the top of the key. Flip does not apply any ball pressure to make the entry passes more difficult and I think his idea of a passing lane is on the highways up north. He doesn't know what playing the passing lane is. (Although if he thinks it is on the highway I would recommend him go play in it)

    Sheed is not dumb. He knows that Murray does not give them a better chance to win. As a matter of fact I think he knows that with Murray playing big minutes; they have a much lesser chance of winning than by playing another player off the bench.(Delfino) So he is not going to bust his ass on the block to have Murray jack up his one-on-three jumper and then have to race to the other end to defend Murray's "Matador" Defensive effort.

    Sheed is pissed. He is pissed at Murray's basketball skills , effort and IQ. And he is pissed that the coach keeps putting him in the games.
    BR> That is why Sheed wants to come off the bench right now. He would be playing with Delfino and Blaylock instead of "ball hog" Murray. At least he knows these guys will make the effort to get him the ball in scoring position and play a "working mans" defense on their man.

    Sorry for the long post but being at the game allows you to see a lot more than on th tube.
    giglio96, Imlay, MI
  20. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Yes Flip has not done well with the entry pass... but that's a consistent pattern with our PG's in regards to Sheed... even Chauncey gives him a quick look and goes the other way.
    Why... because Sheed does a lousy job of sealing his man off... he'll jump in the post get a little body contact and quickly spin away... as if to say never mind that ain't my bag... Dice and Maxell will maintain there position and even improve their position by getting physical and getting the defender off the ball of their feet... you can't deny a pass when you're off balance.
    A PF should get a low center of gravity rock from side to side to create leverage put your hand up when you're ready for the inlet and seal the defender away from the hand side.... this simply ain't happening with any consistency from Sheed.... that's why he drives me crazy at times.

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