Would SVG have the stones to trade Drummond?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Laimbrane, May 15, 2014.

  1. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

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    What? The player that everyone agrees is the cornerstone of the franchise? Why would I dare suggest such outrageous blasphemy?

    I'm not suggesting he will, nor am I pounding the drum that he even should. But hear me out because I've been thinking about it and I do have a few thoughts.

    1) Stan does not value offensive rebounds. Like, at all. Now, I'm sure his opinion wasn't formed while watching a guy like Drummond hoover them up like a Hungry Hungry Hippo, but one of his assistant coaches has stated (I can't find the link) that SVG thinks they're overrated and that going after them crushes a team's transition defense. This has some merit - Drummond was a net liability last year on defense - and while this is probably an oversimplification of SVG's position (he's usually more nuanced than to say "this thing is never good or always bad"), the fact remains that if offensive rebounding is, by a wide margin, Drummond's greatest current strength, then there's a good chance his ability to do that could be limited somewhat by SVG's system.
    2) SVG values strong defensive systems. Drummond has a great deal of potential, but he has a long way to go to grasp complex NBA defensive systems. He struggled with his help defense last year and was a big (though strangely undiscussed) reason that the Pistons were one of the worst defensive teams in the league.
    3) SVG will ride players hard. I don't know a lot about Drummond's mental make-up, but he's young and I get the feeling that he's not a guy that handles criticism all that well. He's a hard-worker insofar as I can tell, but he's a guy that likes to have fun. SVG can be grating to players, and I'm not sure Dre is mature enough yet to adopt that Go-To-Work-And-Grind mentality that SVG will try to instill in his players.
    4) Drummond is still very raw offensively. He is an improving free throw shooter (the form is there), but he doesn't have a lot of great moves down low and he's easily disrupted and fouled. He's not at all ready to be a Howard-esque cornerstone of a full team's offensive game plan, though it's forseeable that he eventually could be.
    5) Drummond has already had minor injury concerns. On their own, these are not immense issues, but taken as a whole, it may indicate injury concerns down the road. Kander has stated that he's very balanced and fluid for his height, so he may last longer than other players, but the fact that he's missed games in his first two seasons with back issues is a yellow flag, if not a red one.
    6) Drummond's trade value may never be higher. He's 20. He is still on his rookie contract for the next two years. He's unbelievably athletic and is still perceived to have a very high ceiling. Everyone loves upside, and there are 29 other teams in this league that would give up a lot to get him. Heck, if he went into the draft, he would probably be the first player taken. He would pull a tremendous amount in return from nearly any team in the league.

    So if Stan decided that he didn't quite fit, that his negatives were too much to overcome, would he have the balls to trade him? If Orlando offered Afflalo, the #3 overall, and the #12 overall for Drummond, Detroit's 8th, and their second rounder (assuming Detroit stays there, after they draft), should he take it? Would YOU take it?

    Let's say, hypothetically, that Detroit ended up pulling Wiggins, and based their team around Jennings/Afflalo/Wiggins/Smith/Monroe... I'm sure SVG would have Monroe/Smith acting as a dual high-post threat, with the other three slashing. Add in a guy like Stauskas at the 12 slot, and all of the sudden the Pistons have a hell of a young team.
     
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  2. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    No way. If that happens I'll use an Oprah avatar for two years.
     
  3. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    I'll miss seeing Blocko.
     
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  4. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    If he doesn't have the sense to trade him then hopefully he'll at least have the sense to bring him off the bench for 10-15 minutes a night. I'm presuming this is what SVG started his critique of all the players with when he met with Gores in LA.
     
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  5. kpaav

    kpaav Team Captain Forum Donor

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    You trade for the #3 pick hoping a guy like Drummond falls to you there after the teams drafting #1 and #2 stupidly let him slide.
     
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  6. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Drummond is the face of the franchise. This will NEVER happen. Guaranteed.
     
  7. The Panda

    The Panda Garbage Post All Star Forum Donor

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    Agreed.

    It really doesn't make sense to trade Drummond. He is good enough to build around, well almost.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 15, 2014
  8. McQuack

    McQuack Bench Warmer

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    It feels like it would be VERY stupid to trade Drummond right now. Worst case, Andre will be a 13/13/2 blks center. Best case if HOF.

    Realistic, I would consider trading him + Smith + Jennings and our pick for Westbrook and Ibaka. I've thought many items about how perfect a Monroe-Ibaka frontcourt would be. But it's not like OKC would ever do that trade. Westbrook is easily a top 5 player in the league right now (perhaps even top 3 behind LeBron and Durant). His playoff average this postseason is 26.5/8/8.4. Not to mention his great defense.
     
  9. The Panda

    The Panda Garbage Post All Star Forum Donor

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    That trade is horrible. You can't give up garbage and a potential guy for two top 5 guys at their position.

    We don't have the pieces to get Westbrook. Smith/Drummond/KCP/Pick might get it done for Westbrook and Perkins. They might even toss in Jeremy Lamb.

    Andre Drummond should be regarded as untradable at this point, on this list with Anthony Davis/LBJ/Durant.
     
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  10. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    I would seriously entertain trading Drummond. Drummond isn't the kind of Big that will lead you to a championship. He's, A piece, not, THE piece. I don't know if I would make the mentioned trade because it keeps us in No Mans Land. I assume by making that trade we would keep Monroe, now your building blocks are Smith, Aflalo and Moose. Smith and Afflalo aren't good enough vets to WIN NOW, and Moose at age 23 is too young. You need guys who hit their stride all around the same time.
     
  11. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Wait...I thought with Singler representing us at the draft that he was the face of the franchise??:noidea:
     
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  12. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    If we could somehow get Wilson Chandler and Marresse Speights back on a multiple team trade...would you do it?
     
  13. The Panda

    The Panda Garbage Post All Star Forum Donor

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    Trading Andre Drummond for Afflalo is borderline disturbed.
     
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  14. brofmfa

    brofmfa Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Your observation were fair enough, it's where Drummond exactly are right now.
     
  15. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

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    This feels like the general tone of the thread, so I'll address it.

    If that's what I was trading, then yes, you're right. But the idea would be to deal Drummond + 1st(8th) + 2nd for Afflalo + 2 1sts (3 and 12).

    Essentially, would you rather have Drummond, say... LaVine, and second-round chaff, or Afflalo, Andrew (Ender) Wiggins, and Kyle Anderson?

    I don't know... for me, that's a tough call. Given the Pistons' log-jam at the 5, I personally think Jennings/Afflalo/Wiggins/Smith/Monroe (with Anderson off the bench) is a better group than Jennings/LaVine/Smith/Monroe/Drummond (with a second-rounder off the bench). I think Drummond is going to be great, but his deficiencies aren't necessarily easy ones to correct, and he offers the highest potential return between him, Monroe, and Smith.

    Would I do it? Probably not. I hope Drummond turns into something special and the Pistons become a dynasty, simply because, you know, he was the Pistons' pick, he's a ton of fun to watch, and he's a great guy to root for. But right now he's basically a less-offensively-efficient Tyson Chandler with slightly better rebounding skills and a decade of experience more to go (and a very high ceiling to which he may or may not ascend). Could he become Dwight Howard? I hope so (if he's on the Pistons). Will he? Debatable. Is there a long way to go? You betcha, and I would be gambling that I'm selling while his value is at its highest.
     
  16. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    Drummond runs on rookie contract, and for peaking- you have to wait for several years.
     
  17. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

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    That's assuming that he's going to go higher. Teams trading for him would be trading for the potential they expect him to have in a couple years. Humans overestimate the value of potential - for some reason we're wired that way - and I would rather trade away potential for semi-equivalent talent.
     
  18. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    What I see in Andre Drummond isn't potential.
    It's ability.

    In his first year of getting legit minutes and legit coaching (thanks Sheed!), dude was among THE best Centers in the game.
    With additional experience, hard work and Stan VanJeremy running the show, he doesn't have the "poetnetial" to get better. He absolutely WILL get better!

    There are VERY few players in the NBA and in the '14 draft that I would even consider trading Drummond for.
     
  19. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

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    And again, that's the point - you wouldn't be trading him for a single player, you'd essentially be trading him for two.

    If he is one of the best centers in the game, it's because of a dearth of centers. The rebounds notwithstanding, he was a defensive liability because of his still-low defensive IQ. He does not have a particularly well-developed offensive game and can't shoot free throws. He had the second-worst +/- on the team (ahead of only CV). He looked lethargic at times, and we all know that by the end of the season he couldn't be counted on for 30+ effective minutes a game.

    He gets a pass because he's young and exciting, because most people assume that he still has a lot to learn and he hasn't had good coaching yet. But what if that's not true? What if what you see is what you get? What if in 10 years Drummond's story becomes "the athletic guy that never learned to play with skill?" The history of the NBA is littered with guys that flamed out for whatever reason, and big men are no exception. You say "he absolutely WILL get better" - is that you as a fan or a basketball aficionado? How much hope and prayer is in that statement?

    I'm well aware that Drummond is becoming the face of the franchise and will not be traded, but I could very easily see the Pistons coming out on the other side of a trade as a better team if that hypothetical trade were made, as it would improve team balance by trading from an area of strength to address a significant area of weakness. But it would be an incredibly ballsy thing to do, and I don't think anyone here (myself included) could do it.
     
  20. webz

    webz All-Star Snub Administrator 2x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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