Would this be possible?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by pass99, Aug 6, 2006.

  1. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    Prince and Detroit's #1 2007 Draft pick for Al Harrington (along with some creative accounting transfers).
  2. #1Pistonfan

    #1Pistonfan First Round Draft Pick 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Would you really want to do that? IMO that would be a horrible deal for Detroit. Prince is closer to being an all-star than Harrington and next years draft is going to be one of the deepest of recent history...

    Anyway, ATL would probably take Tay straight up for A. Harrington. The only way I make the trade (for Detroit) is if Atlanta throws in their '07 1st rounder...
  3. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Depends how much you pay Baby Al. Prince's contract is only worth 50% because he is a Base Year Compensation player.

    Draft picks hold no monetary value in trade.
  4. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    That's too steep of a price... especially since Atlanta is not in a very good position to negotiate....
    It's too bad we can't trade our own draft pick this year (til after the draft) ... this and salaries could make it happen.
  5. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    If you would want to do this, I have to wonder what has made Tayshaun drop so much in people's estimation.

    As for myself, I would rather have Tay than Harrington in any aspect of their game. But I would use him much differently.

    For instance, I would limit his minutes to 30 or so a game, night in and night out. I would make him an earlier option on offense. I would make him know that I passed up Carmelo because I had him, and nothing has changed.

    I just do not see the advantage of having Harrington instead of Tay.
  6. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Hell no! I probably wouldnt even do Tayshaun for Al and a pick. At least do Tay for Harrington straight up because Tayshaun is way better than Harrington. Tay and a draft pick for Harrington would finish off this teams championship run.
  7. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I'm not sure about that himat. Harrington is a pretty good rebounder and an eager scorer. He's not going to camp out at the 3 point line.

    As a defender, Tay gets some better marks, but as far as impact, game in and game out, Harrington is the better player.
  8. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    That is in Atlanta roscoe. Tayshaun does everything for this team, but it does not really show up in the stat sheet. Tay might have the biggest impact on this team and that's over guys like Sheed, and Chauncey.
  9. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Some games himat, some games. I've recently begun to question if Tay is an every game player. Not that he doesn't try, but that his impact is rarely felt 8 or 10 games in a row. In fact, it might be more appropriate to label him an "opportunity player". He takes advantages of opportunities, but doesn't necessarily create his own.

    Would you say that is fair?
  10. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Yeah that is fair for these last few seasons, but this year that should change. He carried us in the playoffs and he will become a huge force unless Flip does not realize what Tayshaun can do for this team.

    I just have to disagree with you here because I would not trade Tayshaun for Harrington let alone Tay and a draft pick.
  11. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    If you put Tayshaun in Atlanta, he would have far more opportunities. I think his (scoring) numbers in a system where he is the first or second option would go way up.

    I do like Al, but I think if you put him in Tay's spot, you would see a similar stat line, maybe a few more rebounds and a little less D all around, and people would wonder why we were paying him so much. It's hard to put up a consistent 20 a night when you have to wait in line behind Rip, Chauncey, and Sheed.

    Tayshaun is the playoff man. Over the last few years, he has stepped up BIG in the postseason, carrying the team at times. I would much rather have that than a more consistent regular season scorer.
  12. max

    max All-Star

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    Yes that trade would be possible and it would be the best offer that ATL would have gotten. I think ATL and Indy are bickering over a draft pick now.

    So many Tay threads out there, not sure where to put this.

    I keep waiting for Tay to really step it up. Each 20 pt game seems to be followed by a 4 point one. I was very dissapointed in 05 when he could not stop Wade. Thought he was a better defender than that. Maybe his is playing too many mins but why can't our guys play the type of mins that you see other players putting in? Why do our guys get tired and guys like Wade, AI, .. can play 40 + and never slow down?

    Right now Tay is looking like a solid above avg player. This is going to be a big season for him, lots of opportunity to step up his game especially in rebounding.

    Harrington would be a nice upgrade from Dyess but his salary is probably too much for a bench player.
  13. #1Pistonfan

    #1Pistonfan First Round Draft Pick 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Man, you CAN'T expect him to stop D Wade or AI they're some of the quickest players in the league (Tay is primarily a 3, by the way). They're also MVP calibur players, I dont think ANYONE can stop them consistantly...
  14. max

    max All-Star

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    Could Artest? I was starting to think that Prince could have been up there as a DPY candidate at some point. He is a good defender but not great.
  15. #1Pistonfan

    #1Pistonfan First Round Draft Pick 2x Fantasy Champion

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    No, RA wouldnt be able to guard Dwade or any quick guard like that....

    You know, if you look back @ that series, we really didnt defend him that bad. He hit some of the most unbelievable shots, even with a hand in his face or the clock winding down. Wade is one of the best (if not the best) in the league at creating his own shot and getting to the rim. And with the way the rules are now, nobody will be able to stop him on a consistant basis...
  16. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    tayshaun is twice the player harrington is. harrington is way overrated and only looks as good as he does because of playing in atlanta. i would never do this trade.
  17. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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  18. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    I don’t know what’s fair, but your summation is absolutely correct. Once again, I am emphasizing the importance of the position. Ben owned a 5-8 ft. radius from the basket; it was his patrols watch…he was the gatekeeper. With him gone, this whole dependency zone has quickly moved or dissipated out to the periphery (and it had to happen sooner or later). In most organization forms (and this team is very much an organizational being), the key component is the flexibility and adaptability of the periphery in serving the center. Detroit lacks a legitimate (which is not height dependent) center and that’s OK (for now): again, you are faced currently with a double weakness of a stretch-out periphery. Who is showing strength going to the hole? The opposing defenses have a ready strategy...all they need to do is push the peripheral out, play pseudo zones, and force you to hit high percentages near the outer line. If a situation presents itself to solve some of your problems, and doing so in an incremental fashion, why not do it? When the Pistons have to change to a different offensive strategy (or other changes), do you also want to begin introducing the new components on the team because of FA, trades, etc.?


    Harrington is a late night gift and JD should jump on it. This makes sense because you introduce a greater positive force than you have now. Why wait until December 15 or at the end of the year. You will need this player’s aggressiveness (along with a whole season of team conformability) for the playoffs. This kid is made for Detroit. Does anyone in their right mind think he (or his new agent) would take Indiana (again) over the Pistons? He was averaging 13. 1 points per game (4th year) in the NBA when Prince was still a senior in college…at the same age. Look at two shadow insights: his career highs and his personal fouls per game. Does anyone doubt, that day-in/day-out, he does not come too play?


    This trade does not depend on money. JD needs to hitch up his trousers and start managerial operations on a passion-gut level, and when that is all obvious…then, Mr. Davidson should make it happen. Time for JD to get ruthless: he can start by making changes at this particular forward position, which will make forthcoming season changes less disruptive as the season progresses. It is obvious that changes must happen toward new approaches/styles with greater assertiveness and the beauty is that that Piston DNA will be the security lifeline. There is a reason why Detroit lead the entire NBA in attendance and the team merely went 37-4 at home (again the best in the league). You have the best center in basketball and you will never lose that center as long as the team is in Detroit. It is probably not lost on most in this forum that most of the successful (fan oriented) players were league nomads who caught that dual DNA spiral (show up/work hard) which replicates into tough-going survivability and fan respect.


    I have no intention of deliberately criticizing or degrading a fine ball player like Prince. He will be an asset to any team, but his slot needs to be occupied by a different personality. It does not diminish him or past/future accomplishments. These things are part of professional life.


    FWIW: Never set up a straw dog which reflects against you. There has been some insinuations that because players who have shown to be successful (or not) on lesser teams are somehow tainted and not worthy of serious consideration. What message does this send to the possibilities of one becoming a Piston recruit? Take a long look at the NBA roster list and note the instability of it all. This insignificant pageant display of movement may come down to: life is ten percent how we make it; ninety percent how we take it.

    If this table does not come out:substitute the first heading for Prince and the second for Harrington.


    Prince
    Harrington
    Position
    Forward
    Forward
    Born
    Feb. 28, 1980
    Feb. 17, 1980
    Height
    6-9
    6-9
    Weight
    215
    245
    College
    Kentucky
    High School St. Patrick’s NJ
    Draft Order
    First Rnd, 23rd , 2002
    First Rnd, 25th, 1998
    Pts. /Game
    14.1
    18.6
    Rebounds/Game Total
    4.20
    6.9
    Rebounds/Game Offense
    1.2
    1.7
    Rebounds/Game Defense
    3.0
    5.2
    Assist/Game
    2.3
    3.1
    Efficiency Ratio
    +13.39
    +17.11
    Minutes/Game
    35.3
    36.6
    Games
    82
    76
    FG%
    .445
    .452
    FT%
    .765
    .694
    Steals/Game
    .76
    1.12
    Personal Fouls/Game
    1.2
    4.0
  19. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Nice try Pas.
    I think Tay will be just fine.
    Team win %
    .725
    .400 ?
  20. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I'm finding the comparison in pass99's post pretty interesting. The two things missing - blocks and games - do swing back to TP, but that's only two. AH's best years in blocks are equal to TP this past season. But, Al is way down career wise by about four to one. I think of Harrington as being injured a lot, but he put in 66, 79, and 82 the past three seasons. Tay of course played them all.

    And Thee is right, Tay has been playing in a system that pushes his game in a certain way. I wouldn't be surprised to see the gap go away if Tay were playing on a losing team in Atlanta.

    We've had the discussion in other threads about the direction Prince is going - I think down, others don't see that. Regardless, I don't see how it's possible to see this past season as a real step up for Prince.

    All in all though I'm hard pressed to pull the trigger today. But I'm really hoping for significant progress next season from Tay. If he stays the same or slides back a bit, we should be so lucky as to find a Harrington quality player out there next summer.

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