Would you trade Carlos Arroyo?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by puertoricanballer, Nov 6, 2005.

  1. puertoricanballer

    puertoricanballer First Round Draft Pick

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    So much discussion have been around about Carlos Arroyo staying or being trade by the deadline. I told Micro before training camp, that Arroyo would be better off on another team where he could showcase his skills. After the first three games, I agree with Max. I think he will have enough exposition here been a backup PG in Flip's system.

    Would you trade Carlos? If so, who would you like the Stones to receive? Remember, his salary is 4M.
     
  2. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    Nope!!

    I would not trade him until he has been here long enough to know this is as good as he is going to get. He is at the point now that he is more than adequate, and as he gets more and more familiar with being allowed to make decisions himself instead of constantly waiting for any mistake to catch up with him, he will improve even more.

    I think I would trust him to run this team in an unwanted situation where CB could not play for an extended period. He is certainly a scrapper, fast enough to get the job done, a good shooter, and I think, at least, a pretty darned good decision-maker.

    He will get better, though, and that won't hurt, either.
     
  3. bricalz

    bricalz First Round Draft Pick

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    Carlos

    A problem with Carlos Arroyo getting traded is that there are so few point guards out there with his skill set and his tag price that can be a back up for our ball club. I mean, no team is gonna give up their starting guards or promising points for Arroyo. He was a steal when Joe traded for him last season because he is locked up cheap and has skills.

    I really don't expect him to put up Chauncey Billups numbers or be even close to how Cnote has evolved into the point guard that he is but Arroyo is the most adequate point guard out there for us at this point.

    But if there is a trade that would give us a point guard with skills comparable to Arroyo or a trade that would bring in salary cap relief then I'm all for it. All the more to keep our core intact for the future. It probably all depends on Acker's development. I liked that Tony Delk proposal a while back, but I'd wait for Joe. :nod:
     
  4. 1989

    1989 First Round Draft Pick

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    I wouldn't trade him. It's important to have a competent backup for CB, and there aren't that many PGs -- in fact, I can't think of any offhand -- that I would prefer to have in Arroyo's place. I think Coach Saunders is going to have him play an important role this year, and in fact, I think he needs to be a factor if the Pistons are going to win back the title.
     
  5. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    Trading Carlos

    Maybe, but for who and why?

    His skill set is a nice fit for the new runnin-n-gunnin Coach Saunders team. If I was Dumars I might've worked alot harder to move the blind disher had Coach Browns system remained intact.

    But with Saunders, Carlos gets to exhibit / use his speed and passing on a team thats actually moving at the same pace. Instead of his having to ratchet it down a might, the whole team is cranked up.

    By the deadline, as he's far more comfortable with the blind dishing to spots where team mates are actually standing or moving, his real capabilities and his roster value will be too high (especially based on the bargain basement NBA paycheck) to consider moving him.

    I do think that the real difference in this question is this;
    Under Coach Brown, Dumars (pursuer) may have had to go fishing with Carlos as the bait for another PG.

    Under Coach Saunders, other teams are likely to be the ones doing the pursuing, Dumars is more likely to be checking out the floating bait, than baiting the hook. That's a far better spot to find yourself as GM.

    Realistically speaking, very few of the rostered players are above being talked about in trades. So I wouldn't be surprised to hear that someone inquires about a #7 or #8 guy off the pine, or that Dumars listens. Making the trades is a completely different matter.
     
  6. puertoricanballer

    puertoricanballer First Round Draft Pick

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    How Mike James ,Tony Delk, Jason Williams, or the other Toronto PG as possible candidates?

    PS. I promise to behave and not jump on anybody.:argue:
     
  7. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    Gary Payton! :eyebrows:

    Actually, I like what arroyo brings to the team. The only reason for a trade is if he wants to start on another team and will bolt when his contracts up.
    The ones calling for trades always seem more vocal, I guess.
     
  8. Jackattaq

    Jackattaq First Round Draft Pick

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    No Way

    I have been begging to see what Carlos Arroyo could give this team. Now that he is finally playing "his game" there is no way I want to see him moved. He is exactly what the Dr. ordered for the 2nd unit. We have some younger athletic guys in backup roles and that plays perfectly into what Arroyo can give this team. Arroyo pushes tempo and looks pass-first so that guys get layups instead of 22 footers. Arroyo is a "tough cookie" he isn't afraid of contact and he is finally looking like he knows what is expected of him.

    I loved what I saw out of Arroyo in Utah. I thought he was a very good PG out there. He had a nice jumper and played alot of pick-n-roll basketball in Utah. I thought the trade that brought him here was a complete STEAL for the Pistons. I was thrilled at the thought of him helping re-vitalize a sluggish 2nd unit for the Pistons. Then we get to the coach. LB tried to re-invent Carlos' game. LB got in the kid's head and tried to take away everything that Carlos was good at. He didn't want him to push tempo. He didn't want him to score. He wasn't supposed to take those wide open jumpers under LB. LB tarnished the kid's confidence and he struggled playing for LB.

    I know that Arroyo gets alot of heat for his "supposed poor defense" but the kid plays hard defensively. Not everyone is a man on man "lock-down" type defender. Arroyo is a different type of defender. He will reach in for steals and knockaways. He will drive for loose balls and he will try to knock the rebounds away from unsuspecting bigmen. He is a "scrapper". His defense is "OK" but where he makes his case for PT is with his unselfish plays an his creativety. He gets guys good shots. He and Dice run that pick and pop to perfection more times than not. He isn't afraid to drive to the rim and take abuse (even though he did want to fight Dirk, BTW: I love that toughness out of my backup). Arroyo DESERVES to be the Piston's backup PG. He deserved it last year but the senile coach decided to go with a one-dimensional defender who was more bad than good for the Piston's cause. Arroyo offers the Piston's so much more as a player than Hunter can. BTW: Who is the all-time worst FG% shooter in NBA FINALS history? I know for sure it isn't Arroyo because he never got a shot.
     
  9. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    I vote no.

    Arroyo makes the whole team better. His ball handling and passing is that good. It rubs off on his teammates. Anyone notice Billups is averaging 9 assists a game so far? With virtually no turns. And just 30 minutes a game on average. This is the Arroyo influence. Yes, I am sure Flip helps a lot in this, but having a guy like Arroy around surely helps greatly.

    And the guy can score. Some bemoan he is not a 3 point shooter. But just a bit inside that line, his shot is darn good. He spreads the defense out just fine. Indeed, with his ability to dribble that bal, he basically has the opposing defense just jacked.

    Defensively, you could do better, which is why I still want to see Acker get some time at point guard too. Sometimes, it will be very importants to stop a hot shooter from lighting it up outside. Acker can do this better than Arroyo. Nothing wrong with having a three guard point guard rotation. Acker would be the defensive specialist. But CB and Arroyo would be the key guys keeping the offense humming along.
     
  10. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    what jackattaq said
     
  11. iamme

    iamme First Round Draft Pick

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    nope, Arroyo's tough and he's got a fire inside him. i want to see him play his best here.
     
  12. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    Don't trade Arroyo

    I concur with others say about keeping him. He'll get better and better, I think. He'll be getting more and more comfortable in this offense. He could never get comfortable under Brown. I see him getting better on D, too. He is just too athletic in my mind not to keep improving. That being said, his play is certainly not above criticism. I criticize him when he plays poorly and praise him when he plays well. Just like every other player on the team. This is because I'm a Pistons fan, not simply an Arroyo fan. There is a huge difference between the two mindsets.
     
  13. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Carlos brings in a totally different game then chauncey, and we need that off the bench to make the other team adapt. he showed yesterday that he can hustle, and we now he can create plays. i wouldn't trade him.
     
  14. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I will advocate trading anyone for the right deal. Folks didn't like it when Stack was traded. That worked out well. Grant Hill leaving was considered a low point. Ended up laying the foundation for a championship.

    I like Arroyo and I think he will have a very good year. He's integral to how well our second unit performs. As long as his play is at a high level, considering the lack of depth we have, it would take an incredible deal to make trading him worthwhile.
     
  15. LA Sam

    LA Sam Second Round Draft Pick

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    No point now, but...

    Right now Arroyo is playing with passion, and being a very compentent backup for Chauncy. Having said that, there are a few things that should concern Piston fans.

    1. Inconsistency: Not really the highest item on the list for a backup, but it is important. If the backup is clutch, other inconsistencies may be overlooked. Arroyo is unpredictable, in a good way, and that's interesting.

    2. Defense: Arroyo is easily beat off the dribble, he is quick, but not fast. He makes quick moves when he's on offense, but lacks the speed to defend.

    3. Offense: I think Arroyo's offense is ok, but there are some disturbing things I've seen. In the Toronto game, there were two sequences where Arroyo was weaving though the defense, that looked like controlled confusion. He was sort of under control, but out of control. I guess I'm trying to say he looked really clumsey. We need to keep our eyes on this to see if he can start to finish some of those awkward moments.

    So, do we trade him? At this point, I wouldn't be actively shopping him, but I wouldn't fail to look at deals that could make us better.
     
  16. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    My answer would be Not Now... however you always have to leave your options open... Micro's answer was on target... every player has a price... example if he was the missing salary piece to land KG.

    I will agree with Lee's comments the other day that it's too early to make a judgement on Acker's ability to contribute today... my trade discussion was about what if J.D. thought Acker has a higher ceiling...
    an example of this is... could he contain his man better on defense... use his length to get more steals by closing the passing lanes.
    With his size, it's possible that he would not have to make diffficult passes by simply seeing over his man... and able to easily shoot over the defender....To-date non of this have been proven.

    Arroyo has exceeded my expectations so far... he looks lighter and quicker on defense... he's sticking his nose in the crowd and coming up with the ball... and hitting a good % of his shots... and he keeps things loose in the locker room...what's not to like.
     
  17. Basketfish

    Basketfish Second Round Draft Pick

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    I think CA has looked pretty good so far.

    I noticed last night that he played a bit more conservative with the starters then he did with the reserves, when he is with the second string he takes it upon himself to make plays when sometimes he has to let his teammaes make a play. All in all he has matured from last year. This kid could be here a long time if he formed a good bond with Darko and got him the ball where he can score.

    In the end it will be his ability to take care of the ball in a big game and get the ball to the open man to start the play.

    I wouldn't trade him now.

    Go Pistons!!
     
  18. puertoricanballer

    puertoricanballer First Round Draft Pick

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    Can he become a starter?

    He's backup PG job is been good so far, but I had read that he would like to be a starter again. Will that be possible to achieve with the pistons in the next couple of seasons? Will the Pistons rather keep Arroyo and trade Billups when he's contract is up and commands a lot of money in the next couple of seasons?
     
  19. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Well if Smush can be an effective starter, Arroyo sure can... don't see it happening here though without an injury to C.B.
     
  20. iamme

    iamme First Round Draft Pick

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    because of Arroyo's poor defense, i can't imagine the Pistons ever choosing him over Chauncey.

    true, Arroyo could start for several teams, but on the Pistons he's a huge asset off the bench.
     

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