WTB Point guard and a Center

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by pgrnpacer, Dec 15, 2009.

  1. pgrnpacer

    pgrnpacer First Round Draft Pick

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    I have been reading this forum for a long time now and I am watching the houston-detroit game right now...... I know there have been a million stuckey criticism threads on here but this is just plain ridiculous right now.... He is NOT a point guard (at this point in his career). Even when he is put at the point he does nothing but ball hog and take the ball 1 on 4. It is making everyone around him worse because you can see that Villanueva is now ball hogging when he gets his hand on the rock because he knows he won't see it again if he gives it up. In my opinion the offense should touch Charlie EVERY time down the floor! And how many chances does stone hands Brown get before we play wilcox? I mean dear god he is so f'ing bad.....SOOOOO BAD. I know Wilcox ain't much better on defense but he can't be as bad as Kwame...he just can't be. I am so frustrated right now. We have so much potential and one or two guys are screwing everything up for everyone else. I need a hug....
     
  2. pgrnpacer

    pgrnpacer First Round Draft Pick

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    lol...and now they put wilcox in....
     
  3. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    :hug: Welcome!
     
  4. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Welcome pgrnpacer and thanks for preaching to the choir tonight...

    Your frustrations are noted, but unless the Pistons continue to start Chucky and bring Rip and Gordon off the bench and then maybe Bynum in the 4th we will have this dilemma. Rip is scoring, but now Stuckey seems confused like he was last year and does not know when to defer and when to shoot when Rip is out there.

    But it was only one game...we have to let it play out for the next five games an see what happens. If we lose the next 4 or 5 then maybe Rip needs to be traded for a true PG (who can shoot better than Atkins) and a big that can shoot better than both Ben and Max......and muscle in the paint


    good luck...
     
  5. DesmoPiston

    DesmoPiston First Round Draft Pick

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    I agree with the PG situation. But we have a great center in Ben right now. All we need is a PG who can distribute the ball, with a decent jump shot and not jack up 3s. We had a five game winning streak not because Chucky was playing, but because Stuckey was playing off the ball. I like JMax and Ben in the front-line. Hustling and Intimidation is what they do. Q proved to be a smart coach so far, I am sure he will make adjustments here soon. I am excited to see what the next line-up would be. These line-up changes are much better than Curry's lottery line-ups. I am guessing we will have good season, just because of the coach, if we don't see any mama-drama from the Vet players.
     
  6. max

    max All-Star

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    I think a lot of that 5 game streak was due to the home games and easier schedule. Winning games they were supposed to win.

    If they get 1 of these 3 out west it will be an improvement.

    In other words, Stuckey is not the problem.
     
  7. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    agreed. It is ridiculous how "everything's wrong" is put on Stuckey's shoulders.

    It is not so black n'white, others too have to make moves, fight for positions, make shots, etc.

    I dunno it seems that some are sitting here "gimme a true PG and he will fix everything".

    Don't fool youreselves, Kwame is Kwame, maxiell is maxiell and no PG can somehow conceal their limitations.
     
  8. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    The contrast in Stuckey's game when he's on the point compared to when he's off the ball is like night and day, as is our play as a team overall.

    It was that rationale that kept me from destroying my flat screen TV by throwing a bottle of beer at it last night.
    That can't be that difficult to find. Damn near every PG in the league can shoot better than Atkins.
     
  9. pgrnpacer

    pgrnpacer First Round Draft Pick

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    Stuckey isn't "bad" he is just playing the wrong position to earn wins right now for the pistons. He is a 2 right now regardless of Dumars claim that he can't be pigeon-holed. So, as someone had posted in a different thread, we have 5 shooting guards (he counted Daye as one). As much as I hate to say it....I think Chunky should start at PG until we find one.

    I know Big Ben is incredible as our center but maybe I am alone in that he leaves a terrible feeling in the pit of my stomach..... If he ever got injured who here believes that the "Benaissance" would continue? He is a stop gap and we are one mis-step away from Kwame stone-hands Brown starting again. Hell, the chances of BEN playing another season is slim to none I would imagine.

    What is everyone's thoughts on Villanueva playing Center with Maxiel at PF? Villanueva has such a nice touch and has been labeled a tweener at the PF position but he is just not mobile enough to D up the outside shot and protect the basket from drives. I hate the thought of eliminating his PF touch but he is a big guy and could be a great center with his post up moves around the basket IMO. Then we could have JJ get some minutes at PF and SF, Daye get some minutes at SF with Stuckey occasionally, Hamilton/Gordon at SG, Chucky/Bynum at PG.

    Am I nuts?:clock:
     
  10. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    HELL NO!!! IN NO WAY WHAT SO EVER ARE YOU NUTS!!!! GO BACK AND READ THROUGH MY POSTS, YOU ARE ECHOING MY EXACT SENTIMENTS!!! I damn near thought that I posted under a different name.

    I think it's OBVIOUS Rodney is a 2-Guard, who can occasionally slide over and play some PG (much like Brandon Roy wil do) in limited -very limited- minutes.

    The new kick is that I too would like to see CV play some mins at the 5. What I too noticed is that CV is not defensively mobile enough to play PF. And since we are now bringing him off the bench, he is often paired up with Kwame Brown, Ay Dios Mios!!!!!

    Since Rip HAS to start (and believe me that makes me sick to my stomach) I think our starting line up should be:
    Chucky (saying this makes me sicker than starting Rip), Rip, Stuckey, JJ, and Ben. Stuckey has shown that he plays the SF relatively well in a 3 guard lineup, his rebounding numbers are through the roof.

    Coming off the bench I like:
    Bynum, Gordon, Daye, CV, Max with Wilcox and Kwame getting spot duty based on matchups.
     
  11. Kidstealth

    Kidstealth First Round Draft Pick

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    Jeez, Stuckey's first "bad" game in the last 6 and we are back to saying he can't play.

    Give him some time, his second year starting, and his first with a real coach.
     
  12. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Ok dude seriously, WTH are you reading that translates into "he can't play" NOBODY (except 1 dude, who no one is taking serious) is saying that!! NOBODY IS SAYING THAT HE CAN'T PLAY

    All we're saying is that he is a SG not a PG. Stuckey's 1st bad game in the last 6, was his 1st game in the last 6 where he played more minutes at PG than SG. THAT IS NOT A COINCIDENCE!! Let HIM play HIS game at HIS position, the 2-GUARD!!! Geez, read the posts my friend.
     
  13. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Team Captain 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Exactly. He had some freakin good games while playing at the 2 while sucking when he played the PG spot. There's a connection between Stuckey's play and the position he's used at. Maybe it's just a coincidence and JoeD is right. Maybe it's not the position but the opponent, the weather, the climate change, the FED or the Illuminati.
     
  14. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    I realize that some here on the forum think that we should move Stuck to the SG position :sssh: but is that what is best for this team long term? The PG position is the most difficult to learn in the NBA. Stuckey is in his first year at the position with a teacher.

    The next step in Stucks maturation process is learning to make quicker decisions. Right now (and maybe it is because Rip has been out so long) he is waiting too long to see if Rip will come open. Maybe this is because the team is trying to accelerate Rip's acclimation process to the way the team has been playing? Maybe they are trying to force feed him the ball to get him going? Once the team is acclimated things will go smoother.

    What I see in watching the game is the same thing that I think Kgreg sees (although I am unsure as to whether Kgreg thinks Stuck is a 1 or a 2). Stuckey needs to make quicker decisions up top. When Rip comes off the initial screen he is either open or he isn't. That is the decision Stuck needs to make without hesitation. If he is open; get him the ball. If he isn't open; Stuck needs to look opposite side or make his own move to break down the defense.

    The hesitation at the top is what I think is annoying Kgreg and why I think Kgreg may want to think of Stuck as SG rather then the PG he has been playing. Waiting for Rip to come off multiple picks is throwing the offense out of whack. Stuckey has the ability to play a successful pg position but he needs to learn the nuances of that position.

    I think the other part of the problem is lack of movement from the rest of the team while waiting for Rip. Usually a double screen is set for him so that only leaves one other player that Stuck can pass to if Rip isn't open.

    Let's see how Stuck progresses the rest of the year and then be able to make a decision as to whether he has made progress this year as point guard or if he is just a 2 guard. (like some on this forum beleive he is)
     
  15. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    We need some clarification on that from KGreg.
     
  16. lovingj

    lovingj First Round Draft Pick

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    Yes it is. If the coach was priming Stuck to play that position then he would not have moved Stuck to the 2 even with Rip out. I think we are all learning that Stuck is not good at that position and I don't think he even likes playing it. Stuck does not want to learn how to defer to others. His best games are when that is not his job. He likes to defer when it flows with his offensive game, not because the position requires it . . . hence a 2 guard.

    Furthermore, look how he plays at the point. About the only way he distributes the ball is by taking the ball up the court stopping at the top of the arc and waiting for his first option, RIP, to come around and get open. That is it. No pick and rolls, no dribble and kick out, no directing his guys to move and get open . . . nothing. He does more point guard like moves from the 2 than he ever does from the 1.

    Finally, putting Stuck at the 2 or 3 and starting Chuck puts the onus on Joe D to figure out how he plans to fill the pg position long term instead trying to fit a square peg into a round hole with Stucky.
     
  17. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    The Pistons offense doesn't make strong demands on the point. It's not like Phoenix where the point has to make a lot of good decisions on the break. It's not a team that lives and dies on the P&R forcing the point and a big man to make good decisions every time down the court.

    It's an offense that requires the point to bring the ball up, get the team organized, and make the first pass. After that the point by and large just becomes another player cutting and screening.

    When you see Chucky running the point you see a lot of organizing (i.e., a lot of waiving at guys and yelling them to move) early in the shot clock. When you see Stuckey and by and large Bynum running the point you don't really see that. And once a play starts out with guys in the wrong place, it usually ends with the point, either Stuckey or Bynum, trying to do something heroic. Heroic and unfortunately predictable and easy to defend.

    Maybe Stuckey just isn't wired that way, but maybe he's just never been held accountable.
     
  18. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Great Post:p_welldone:, almost brought tears tomy eyes:crying:


    And since Y'all smarty-pants asked for Clarification here it is:

    Stuckey as the PG---------:confused:

    Stuckey as the SG---------:greenapple:

    Stuckey as the PG-----------:help:

    Stuckey as the SG-----------:whoo:

    Stuckey as the PG, with Rip in the lineup-----------:noidea:

    I hope that 'clarifies' it for y'all.......
     
  19. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    The other thing we have to remember is that this is only Rip's 3rd game this SEASON. Maybe there are other plays in the play book that expand the options of the point guard when Rip is in the game??

    I guess what I mean is that Rip hasn't truly been integrated with the plays. He had the pre-season and one game then he was hurt. The coach has not had the ability to work with Stuck and Rip and the nuances that can come about by playing them together.

    Maybe the 2-Chest play evolves to a play where if Rip comes off and doesn't get the ball he comes up to set a pick for Stuck. Now you have Stuck making a play rather then waiting for one to develop. I think this is where Kgreg likes to see Stuckey play.

    I think we keep forgetting that this is a new coach for these players and that Rip has been out all season. There will be the same adjustment when Tay comes back as well. The coach needs time to adjust to the players and their strengths just like players need time to adjust to a new playbook and teammates.

    All of the above is based on the assumption that the new coach is not just utilizing the playbook from last year and has some offensive creativity. :sssh:
     
  20. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    You're assuming Curry's smart enough to work the email on the internet machine to send Kuester the old playbook.
     

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