Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by pass99, May 31, 2010.
roscoe, maybe that is the answer, dumars wants to hear, mh?
Anybody watch that show the Locker room that Eli Zaret used to host on sundays? Anyways...
Joe slaughters sacred calves frequently, the only reason Tay is around is because he couldn't have traded him for 20 million dollars of capspace, or because chicago didn't offer him an insanely large contract. The fact that the Rasheed was traded for in the first place was a sign that those other players were not very important to him.
I do think he does not place a huge priority on youth. For example, it seems he sees 2nd round picks as cheap roster fillers (i.e. NoDoze), and not as actual talent. But you can't fault him for not trying. Stuckey is a legit pro, as is Daye, Afflalo, and JMax. So he hasn't completely blown off the draft either.
Basically, Joe doesn't give a %%%% who anybody is. If you are going to go out there and half-ass then you'll sit the bench, when you do, don't complain.
also coach wants to win NOW!!, so coach plays his best players, usually including rip and tay here.
For "develope young players and sit, kill, trade, whatever tay and rip party": first step: GM has to officially announce that team is tanking. this scenario has been discussed here and it is clear why this is impossible.
2. hire coach "winning is not important, give minutes to greenhorns"
3. wait at least 2-3 years.
Joe should ask coaching candidates how they would respond to being fired. That should filter out the good ones.
I think candidates for Hooper should be asked if they would sulk if they were sent to the stable. If they answer "neah", then they should be considered.
The Pistons went 27-55 last year and they are still not certain what position their 15th pick in the draft plays because he hardly ever saw the court.
Wasn't JJ the 15th pick?
I think he was something like 38-39.
Thanks, I knew that. That's why the smiley guy. He's represented so far like the 15th pick.
Maybe that's the real reason he's asking the question; to identify who has the drive to compete. I do this sort of questioning all the time when I'm interviewing candidates for open positions. You usually can learn much more about a person with indirect questioning.
Here's where Detroit picked in the last 9 years:
2009: 15th (Daye)
2008: 29th (DJ White - to Seattle)
2007: 15th (Stuckey)
2006: no 1st round picks
2005: 26th (JMax)
2004: no 1st round picks
2003: 2nd (Darko)
2002: 23rd (Tay)
2001: 9th (Rodney White)
Aside from 2003, this year's #7 is the our highest draft pick in a decade. Franchise players don't get drafted towards the end of the 1st round. You are being unfair.
To summarize, Dumars had the following 6 first round picks within the last decade:
- Austin Daye
- Rodney Stuckey
- Jason Maxiell
- Darko Milicic
- Tayshaun Prince
- Rodney White
Yes, Darko may be the biggest blunder of Joe's GM career. But 4 out of those 6 are pretty good players. I think Joe does better in the draft than most people give him credit. Remove the Darko mistake, and he's got a VERY GOOD track record.
Two out of six are starters, both of whom might not start for teams with stiff competition at their position.
You did miss Delfino I think. But he too wouldn't start for a team with intense competition at his position either.
What is going on is that we have gone a decade under Joe without hitting a homerun in the draft. We can chalk it up to bad position, but I would be surprised if there are any other teams with that poor of a drafting record. Even San Antonio and LA, two teams which won a lot in the last 10 years, have better records for talent brought into the league.
Arguably one of our best picks, Memo, unfortunately had to be given up to keep Sheed, a sort of Morton's Fork.
Joe drafts reasonably well in the second round. He is good at drafting guys who will wait 3 years to get their shot. He isn't very good at picking difference makers.
roscoe, to get superstar from draft outside of top 10 needs ridiculus amount of luck.
Delfino wasn't a 1st rounder. I was only listing 1st round picks.
You are mentioning SAS and LAL. SAS had a very solid core of Parker-Manu-Duncan-Robinson. They only needed to draft role players. Any one of Dumars' picks could've played in the championship teams that SAS had. Same goes for LAL. When Shaq and Kobe were on the floor together, the other pieces really didn't matter. How many teams in the league would Rick Fox be a starter in really? Or Devean George?
You also say that joe drafts reasonably well in the second round. Well, that's where he had to pick most of the time. If he's done well in the second round, he's done well in the draft.
It all boils down to that 2003 pick. If Joe had picked Melo or Wade or Bosh instead of Darko nobody would be questioning his drafting skills now.
I also want to add that SAS is an exception when it comes to drafting foreign players because they have an outstanding overseas scouting team. That's why they were able to find players like Parker and Manu.
The best international scout Detroit has is CarlosGallan and I doubt Joe's listening to him.
NBA Draft 2003 / Round: 1 / Pick: 25
Selected by the Detroit Pistons
Advanced Disclaimer: I support Joe.
Joe' lotto picks came up a little short ehh?
I can cut him some slack on one of those guys but you should at LEAST bat .500 in the lottery.
I actually give him a pass for Darko. 7-footers with his skillz don't come around very often and nobody could have known that the HVC was destined for the "All-Apathy" team.
...maybe Joe was hypnotized by Rodney's "quick hands".
Joe needs to have a good draft this year.
Rodney White finally found success with the Zhejiang Lions in China. Head coach Wang Fei and Assistant Liu Quan Sheng were able to mold him into the player he is today. Poor coaching may have doomed Rodney.
I think Joe does better than average in the draft. If you look at the guys he drafts, look at all the players drafted after the player he picks and tell me where he could have done better. With the exception of Darko, show me the guys Joe should have drafted given his picks. The Spurs have gotten lucky with three picks, Manu, Parker and George Hill; and after the first 2 there was a long drought in between the foreigners and Hill. Also it's much easier to look like a genius when you draft one of those high risk/high reward players late in the first or 2nd rd. Lotta pressure in the top 10 to get it right, Joe hasn't been there very often but when he is there, he hasn't done to well, hopefully this year will be different.
The Spurs also got Scola, they hold the rights to Splitter, and when they don't have a guy they want right away, they grab rights to decent foreigners to sit on or make a trade like sending Dragic to the Suns.
They don't draft narcoleptics to sit on the bench.
Who was better than Maxiell? David Lee. Yes, David Lee is no Rasheed Wallace. But he is twice the player Max is.
Louis Williams? A guy we talk about now, Gortat?
Delfino over Perkins, Josh Howard.
Yes, it is second guessing. I am less concerned with who we didn't draft, as I am with how little we got out of who we did draft.
Alex Acker, wherefore art thou?
But Scoe, are you really going to sit here and talk about what we didn't get out of our late first rd and late 2nd rd picks? Nobody thought Lee, Perkins and Howard were sleepers; those are guys like JJ, drafted late and SURPRISE!! Remember Lee was Zekes 3rd pick in that draft. Those GM's that you think are better than Joe, go look at their draft history and you'll see that they're all about the same. Guys like Sharpe are High Risk (without actually risking anything) and High Reward, and Joe actually does pretty good in that dept, Memo, JJ, Amir are examples of that, go show me 2 other GM's that have three 2nd rounders in the league contributing on NBA teams.
Separate names with a comma.