You will sit

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by pass99, May 31, 2010.

  1. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    I'm going to go on a rant. As Roscoe mentioned earlier, drafting isn't the problem with Joe, it's developing his talent. He keeps thinking he's running a middle school team where guys vets, with poor talent, but fast motors and attitude play over up and comers with a little maturity problems.

    We don't keep these guys because we don't play them, and they don't want to come back. Guys thought Delfino had a bad attitutde because he didn't like sitting with Flip. Do you think Skiles puts up with bad attitudes? You play hard, and you're good, you play. period. His problem with vets is he'll play outperforming youngsters over guys with reps, we've playing guys with reps since day one.

    The only reason Jonas got any PT (which he deserved) was because of injuries. And the one time Joe decides to play the rook, he's making a mistake and dumps the better performing vet in CB.

    Joe needs to stop talking about accepting being on the bench and start with what you need to get on the court. JMax seems the epitome of what Joe preaches, but JMax is helping no one win a title.
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Uhm, yes? That's been my direction in this thread.

    Oh, it is on like donkey kong!

    Rod Thorn
    -Kyle Korver
    -Chris-Douglas Roberts
    -Josh Boone

    Kevin O'Connor
    -Mo Williams
    -CJ Miles
    -Paul Milsap

    Rick Sund
    -Bobby Simmons
    -Earl Watson
    -Willie Green

    John Paxson
    -Matt Bonner
    -Chris Duhon
    -Sonny Weems (this is borderline)

    Mitch Cupcake
    -Ronny Turiaf
    -Marc Gasol
    -Luke Walton
    -Toney Douglas
    -Von Wafer

    Next time one of us has to prove something, it's on you. ;)
  3. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    Looking at the value Joe got for the pick, he's batting 500, Daye seems too early to tell, but looks good, Stuckey is fine for where he was drafted, JMax and Darko were both drafted too high, but Darko still has the better upside. Tayshaun was a steal for his position, and RW was a mega bust, but that draft had several mega busts, including Curry and Kwame.

    The problem is looking not at value for pick, but can these guys start in the NBA, Joe drafted two starters who couldn't get PT here, couldn't wait to get out of Detroit, and are now helping other teams
  4. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    I was going to mention this.
    Wang Fei has really helped Rodney become a solid contributor.
  5. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Rajon Rondo was the 21st pick of the 1st round.
  6. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Guys seriously, we just came off a run where we had 6 legit chances to get to the NBA finals. How many perrinial contenders draft and develop young talent that become starters and rotation players during their run??? And 16Mile save me with that __________, Delfino was out of the league 2 seasons ago, Darko will be gone this year, neither of those guys ever did what they needed to do while they were here.

    You know why JJ played? Because when he finally hit the court he made it impossible to take him off the court. Darko and Delfino BOTH had that window open up and neither of them did what JJ did, or what Tayshaun did, or what Will Bynum did. That window of opportunity comes for every player at some point and time, you better make the most of it because it may be your one and only shot.
  7. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    To be fair, Delfino and Darko never got a chance to start due to someone's injury.

    KG, I pretty much owned the argument about second rounders which in itself was a diversion from the topic of this thread, but it seems we're going even further from what Joe does during interviews, and whether it is wise or productive.
  8. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Which is all the more reason why the 7th pick will not be a bad one unless the front office whiffs on it. The talent outside the top 6 will probably still yield at least a couple NBA starters, and maybe even an all-star.
  9. The Microwave

    The Microwave Second Round Draft Pick

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    Hey, love this board. After most Pistons games I visit another board to get the average fan reaction, then come here to get a breakdown and analysis of what actually happened.

    In any case, wanted to add my two cents to this.

    Saying Joe D. is bad at drafting is one of the BIGGEST MYTHS in sports. When you compare him to other executives he's easily top ten and maybe top 5. He's ONLY had three bad picks in a decade. During that era most teams have had many, many more bad picks.

    Besides a few 2nd rounders (which fail 90%+ of the time anyway) every single player since Darko has met or exceeded their draft status, which is incredible. That's since 2003.

    Below is how many PPG his picks have averaged for their careers and in parenthesis how many PPG other players picked at that spot have averaged. The data goes back to 1998.

    #14 Mateen 3.6 ppg (8.8 ppg)
    #54 Brian Cardinal 5.4 (1.8)
    #9 R. White 7.1 (10.2)
    #37 Okur 13.3 (5.7)
    #23 Prince 12.7 (6.8)
    #2 Darko 5.6 (12.9)
    #25 Delfino 7.0 (5.2)
    #26 Maxiel 6.1 (6.0)
    #56 Amir Johnson 4.5 (2.3)
    #15 Stuckey 13.0 (6.6)
    #27 Afflalo 5.8 (5.3)
    #15 Daye 4.9 (6.6)
    #39 Jerebko 9.3 (3.2)


    He has had only three bad picks, all early in his career. He hasn't had anything close to a bad pick since Darko, which was 7 years ago.

    Of course the young guys, like Stuckey, Jerebko, Amir, Daye, Delfino and Afflalo are all going to improve their career averages a lot, making those picks look even better.

    Basically, Dumars got off to a mixed start, but has been nailing the draft lately.


    An interesting note is that Stuckey (who we basically got for Darko of course) is already averaging more ppg than the average #2 pick.

    Also, I think the Cleaves pick came only about 2 weeks after he was hired, so that's a little tough to pin on him.

    Moreover, since 2003 the only players drafted outside of the top 5 who are even close to stars are Brandon Roy at #6, Al Jefferson at #15 (no All-Stars though), and Rondo at #21, all of whom were drafted before the Pistons 1st pick. And none of them are likely the type you can build a team around, although Rondo is looking like he could develop into that type of player.

    I might be missing some info here, but look at the drafts of some of the better teams since Dumars has been drafting. In that time the Mavs have only drafted 1 good player, Josh Howard, then a bunch of terrible players. The Lakers have had one really good pick, Andrew Bynum, then a few good picks like Walton, Vujajacic and Von Wafer. The Suns have 1 All-Star in Amare, one good player in Barbosa and a bunch of nobodies. The Jazz have one All-Star in Derron Williams, an excellent pick in Millsap, an ok pick in Ronnie Brewer (#14), a few very avg. players then I think 3-4 first round picks that are not even in the league anymore. The Rockets have Yao Ming, then their next best draft pick is probably Aaron Brooks or Luis Scola. The best organization in basketball has been the Spurs. They have one All-Star in Tony Parker, then their next best pick is Goerge Hill.

    I'm not saying Joe D. is great at drafting, but when you hold the same light to other executives, he's definitely not bad and actually pretty good.
  10. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Nice first post Micro. Welcome.
  11. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    Pretty weird to see you talking to yourself in the 3rd person like that roscoe.


    Yeah, good first post dude. Quite informative.
  12. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    Welcome Micro...good first post...hopefully you won't leave and create your own forum.
  13. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    Nice entrance to the forum Microwave. Hope you stick around. :)
  14. The Microwave

    The Microwave Second Round Draft Pick

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    haha did I steal his old name? My bad. Thanks for the compliments. Now that I've posted once, I'll likely be posting more. Tough to go back after you break that seal.
  15. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    No theft was involved. I am happy to see you using the name.
  16. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    Roscoe was "The Microwave" over at the DetNews site for many years until he started this place. He's still referred to as "micro" by some of the old-schoolers here upon occasion.

    Ahhh, he should have "domain-name squatted" that name years ago. It's his own fault. He's Canadian anyway so I wouldn't worry about it.
  17. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    yeah, canadians, you know those commies? private property not important at all...
    :stooges:
  18. Nemo

    Nemo Pun Master Forum Donor

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    Maybe Bud Selig can make a decision on this. :pound:
  19. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Welcome Microwave!!! And thank-you, you said exactly what I was trying to say, but I'm not as cyber-smart as you are and was too lazy to do the research. GREAT POST!!!
  20. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Jammer is the head commie. That's why Darth always calls him "Glorious Leader" :pound:

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